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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

I'm making a connection to something I feel is worthy of considering with the idea of a less violent future in mind, and those responsible are held accountable. If a thorough investigation proves that victim names and the names on Palins Crosshairs pic are only coincidental, then so be it. Something very bad happened, and I want to see where it's rooted. I feel that to ignore this as a possible connection just because it's politically unpopular to do so is just one more crime on our hands.

An opinion, no matter how worthy one feels it is not cause and effect.

So if one doesn't have the connection, are they "rushing to judgement?"

I mean ... if we want to rush to judgement, we've already got direct, provable connection with this shooter.

For a fact, this guy's favorite books included "Mein Kampf" and "The Communist Manifesto"  and not Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations."  Are these writings capable of motivating people?  Him>

If this connection is true ... and it is ... shouldn't we instead, be indicting every socialist or communist for inciting this tragedy?  Should we ban "Mein Kampf" and "The Communist Manifesto?"

A person isn't automatically guilty just because their fingerprints are found at the scene of a crime. But they're still investigated nonetheless. And I feel there's a fingerprint here that warrants investigation, probably more in the line of social pathology.

I feel this shooter should be held accountable for his crime; life imprisonment, death penalty, whatever. But if pictures like Sarah Palin's Crosshairs picture can be proven significantly influential to this crime, then because of the nature of Palin's Crosshair picture combined with the fact that there are countless undiagnosed mentally impaired and conscience-impaired citizens free in America, I agree with a law that makes pictures like this illegal to display publicly.

Palin's picture didn't just list Names. It clearly depicted a Gun Scope's Crosshairs with specific names listed below it.

And to speak briefly about another point mentioned a few comments ago, I very much disagree with the production of extremely violent and graphically gory games that so many kids play. I feel that these games are a fairly effective way to nurture sociopathy and feed the desperate hunger of psychopath, and should be banned. Did this shooter enjoy games like this?

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
oh, i'm sorry. i thought crosshairs were crosshairs were crosshairs, and mention of going behind enemy lines and such were basically the same.

Regardless of who says it, I feel it's very poor political sportsmanship for politicians to openly regard their competitors as "Enemies". That, to me, influences the toxin of separatism between Americans.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Palin's picture didn't just list Names. It clearly depicted a Gun Scope's Crosshairs with specific names listed below it.

So?  That proves ... what exactly?

Heck, if we want to jump to conclusions, let's deal with facts rather than totally unsupported connections:

1) The shooter's favorite books included "Mein Kampf"

2) Hitler was a National "Socialist."  He incited great violence against Jews.

3) Rep. Giffords is half-Jewish.

These are not speculations.  These are facts.

Therefore, if someone wants to rush to judgment, we should follow proven rather than speculative connections.  

We should conclude that this was an anti-semetic act and we should blame socialists.  Following the same types of logic, we should also ban "Mein Kampf."

Of course, and even though there's even more support for this, nobody's jumping up and down over it.  Nobody anywhere.

Instead, they go for something that's totally unsubstantiated ... zero, zip, nada ... no connections whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
we already have a problem.
another nail in the coffin for our freedom of speech. fear trumps freedom every time.

And that's why we're a Republic rather than a democracy ... the rule of law.

If it were up to lynch mob mentality, Palin and her family would've been hung this weekend ... if not already.

(Looking down at my "Gadsen" T-Shirt.)

Me too, probably.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Palin's picture didn't just list Names. It clearly depicted a Gun Scope's Crosshairs with specific names listed below it.

So?  That proves ... what exactly?

Heck, if we want to jump to conclusions, let's deal with facts rather than totally unsupported connections:

1) The shooter's favorite books included "Mein Kampf"

2) Hitler was a National "Socialist."  He incited great violence against Jews.

3) Rep. Giffords is half-Jewish.

These are not speculations.  These are facts.

Therefore, if someone wants to rush to judgment, we should follow proven rather than speculative connections.  

We should conclude that this was an anti-semetic act and we should blame socialists.  Following the same types of logic, we should also ban "Mein Kampf."

Of course, and even though there's even more support for this, nobody's jumping up and down over it.  Nobody anywhere.

Instead, they go for something that's totally unsubstantiated ... zero, zip, nada ... no connections whatsoever.

I feel that if our vision stops at the quick fundamentals, then we're missing the bigger picture. Like I said, I think there's a fingerprint worth investigating here.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

I feel that if our vision stops at the quick fundamentals, then we're missing the bigger picture. Like I said, I think there's a fingerprint worth investigating here.

If that's the case, I just showed you and everybody else a more direct connection, based on known facts.

Where's the expressed concern for that?



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And this is not "aimed at you" Shawn, but now I'm also reading that the vicious crowd's using this to rail for repealing the Second Amendment.  Ommigod!  That Serrh Palin is also a gun nut!

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I would very much doubt that a drug using, religion hating, socialist/marxist loving nutcase would be a follower of Palin, so how does your crosshair map fit in? Isn't that just a very long reach? You do know that those "crosshair" marks are real map symbols? Go here http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/booklets/symbols/topomapsymbols.pdf & scroll about halfway down the page on the right. There it is, the USGS uses that very same symbol on maps to mark a point.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

I feel that if our vision stops at the quick fundamentals, then we're missing the bigger picture. Like I said, I think there's a fingerprint worth investigating here.

If that's the case, I just showed you and everybody else a more direct connection, based on known facts.

Where's the expressed concern for that?

Granted, none of us are speaking by way of large-scale media outlets. But I find it hard to believe that Fox News hasn't counteracted any of the Democratic-leaning News Medias. What's Fox News saying about any of this? Are they too not focusing on Direct Connections and Known Facts?

Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

And this is not "aimed at you" Shawn, but now I'm also reading that the vicious crowd's using this to rail for repealing the Second Amendment.  Ommigod! That Serrh Palin is also a gun nut!

I disagree with repealing the 2nd Amendment. I feel that if I've passed strict guidelines for gun ownership, then I reserve the right to purchase and own one.

What's a gun nut?

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Originally Posted by Ricky West:
I would very much doubt that a drug using, religion hating, socialist/marxist loving nutcase would be a follower of Palin, so how does your crosshair map fit in? Isn't that just a very long reach? You do know that those "crosshair" marks are real map symbols? Go here http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/booklets/symbols/topomapsymbols.pdf & scroll about halfway down the page on the right. There it is, the USGS uses that very same symbol on maps to mark a point.

I looked. But nothing in that link lists specific and political/oppositional names beneath them. I feel anything demonstrated in that link is in a completely different context and irrelevant to this conversation.

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this may surprise a few people, but this is actually obama's fault. i mean if a stupid little map can inspire violence, what about this vitriolic hate speech?

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,"

"We’re gonna punish our enemies.."

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. “ I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

"I don't want to quell anger. People are right to be angry."

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Granted, none of us are speaking by way of large-scale media outlets. But I find it hard to believe that Fox News hasn't counteracted any of the Democratic-leaning News Medias. What's Fox News saying about any of this? Are they too not focusing on Direct Connections and Known Facts?

Initially, yes.

Once others started to politicize it to cast blame and smear Palin, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Tea Partiers and anybody who's conservative, they started covering that story as well.

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:
What's a gun nut?

It's what a number of the non-hatah's from the party of "openness and acceptance" call someone who owns a gun.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
this may surprise a few people, but this is actually obama's fault. i mean if a stupid little map can inspire violence, what about this vitriolic hate speech?

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,"

"We’re gonna punish our enemies.."

Who's he referring to here, fellow Americans or Terrorists? If it's Terrorists, then I feel this is a completely different context and fairly appropriate. America has enemies, that seems obvious. Although I'm indifferent about the use of the word "Punish". But that what do we do to convicted terrorists? But if he's referring to Republicans, (I'm unfamiliar with these quotes BTW), then I feel they're equally inappropriate to what I've opined about Palin's picture. Regardless, neither of these quotes list specific names.

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. “ I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

This one seems silly to me. People getting into each others faces over disagreement creates problems rather than solves them, imo.

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

"I don't want to quell anger. People are right to be angry."

In a sense, I don't feel this one fits into the flow of conversation here. I agree that people are right to be angry. But I don't feel that anger in itself is a bad thing. Responding to anger with murder seem very much like a bad thing. But we each respond to our anger uniquely, and not always toxically.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Granted, none of us are speaking by way of large-scale media outlets. But I find it hard to believe that Fox News hasn't counteracted any of the Democratic-leaning News Medias. What's Fox News saying about any of this? Are they too not focusing on Direct Connections and Known Facts?

Initially, yes.

Once others started to politicize it to cast blame and smear Palin, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Tea Partiers and anybody who's conservative, they started covering that story as well.

Well, I'm chuckling off subject here. For personal reasons largely rooted in personal character, I don't like any of the people you've listed here, not including the Tea Party. But equally so and for similar reasons, I don't like Democratic extremists personalities either. I used to watch Fox's Hannity & Colmes and I had to quite because the toxic and extremely immature behaviors of both these two made my skin crawl. Similarly, I used to enjoy The O'Reilly Factor, but Bill, a registered Independent as I am, became way too overtly narcissistic for me and I moved on, regardless of my agreements and disagreements of his material.

Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:
What's a gun nut?

It's what a number of the non-hatah's from the party of "openness and acceptance" call someone who owns a gun.

Well considering gun ownership spans both primary political parties,,,, well, whatever I initially intended to say here is all blah,,, it's another reason why I can't be a Democrat or a Republican; they're both so hypocritical at times.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:
Responding to anger with murder seem very much like a bad thing. But we each respond to our anger uniquely, and not always toxically.

Responding to anger by murdering innocent people is wrong.

Responding to murder by "targeting" anger at innocent people is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:
Responding to anger with murder seem very much like a bad thing. But we each respond to our anger uniquely, and not always toxically.

Responding to anger by murdering innocent people is wrong.

Responding to murder by "targeting" anger at innocent people is wrong.

Follow the finger prints