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if they really wanted to prove it, they should've kept a few veils of blood, and let independent labs confirm it. it's no harder to just say you have DNA evidence than it is to photoshop a picture. and how many people outside of the west really have an understanding of DNA?

but pictures aside, the administrations handling of the after effects of the killing, and the ever-evolving story and changing details, has been atrocious. it's as if they WANT to create enough vagueness and mystery so as to foster conspiracy theories. i personally think they detained him and then killed him, and that's what they don't want getting out. it's either that, or they are completely inept, or as i said, they WANT people to wonder and start cooking up possibilities. almost like a replay of the birth cert issue.

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Originally Posted by Whitney Stocker:
I know scott, there is no changing your mind. Anybody with a high school understanding of physics knows that buildings can't fall into themselves at or near free fall speeds should know that the official conspiracy theory cannot be true. Trouble is people want to believe that their government would not lie to them, even when it is obvious. I believed it myself for 4 years. When someone told me this I laughed. But since I was a scientist I decided I would prove them wrong using science. To my horror I realized they were right. For the last 6 years I have researched many conspiracy theories and have found most of them to be true or probably true. It is all about money. There has not been a war since WWII that was only about money. Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex...

And anyone with a high school understanding of how things work knows the conspiracy generated a different kind of pile.

"Lex Parsimoniae"

So to perpetuate it, NOW ... Obama has  to be in on the conspiracy ...

Yeah.  Sure.

Add another wide set of unrealistic requirements to the "free falling" pile.

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Meanwhile ...

When Osama bin Laden died, he was met at the Pearly Gates by George Washington, who slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"

Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."

James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson was next, he beat Osama with a long cane and snarled, "It was evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence."

The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the terrorist leader.

As Osama lay bleeding and in pain, an Angel appeared. Bin Laden wept and said, "This is not what an angel promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?"

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Alex came home last night saying he got into an argument with his Dad who told him Bin Laden was killed 9 years ago....you all are a little late  

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:


And anyone with a high school understanding of how things work knows the conspiracy generated a different kind of pile.

"Lex Parsimoniae"

So to perpetuate it, NOW ... Obama has  to be in on the conspiracy ...

Yeah.  Sure.

Add another wide set of unrealistic requirements to the "free falling" pile.

You can't apply Occam's razor to this, yes it is complicated, but you can't ignore the physical laws the official conspiracy theory violates. Buildings can't fall into themselves, the path of greatest resistance. There are many cases where buildings have collapsed, they ALL fall to the side, except controlled demolition. The speed of the collapses are impossible without removing the lower floors first, it violates the law of conservation of momentum. And now we have the evidence that proves it. Undetonated nanothermite and the product of detonated  nanthermite in the dust. This stuff is very high tech, it can be painted on the steel. Who is being unrealistic?

I never said who I thought is responsible. I don't know if BO is in on it or not. The president is only as smart as his advisers allow him to be.

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Okay, let's assume for a moment the government perpetuated this huge tragic event upon it's citizens ... this master plan to, I don't know what the purpose ... kill, maim, devastate Americans from all walks of life.  Some victims even employed by this evil group.  And they are ALL great actors and faked all the heartache and pain they shared with us and that was felt back on and around 9/11.  And not a one of the group responsible for this master plan is coming forward claiming it or telling "the truth" ?  

That is more difficult for me to believe than any of the scientific conundrums the conspiracy theorist put out there.

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I agree that there was something happening in the building to influence control in the collapse of the buildings. I don't have the video handy, but I saw were in the wreckage a steel support was shown with a steep diagonal cut in it that greatly reflects the cuts used in controlled demolitions to keep the building from tipping to a side. And if memory serves, one of the floors was in a construction state or simply not used, but people reported hearing 'things' happening on those floors that sounded like construction. Something like that anyways, but could it be related to a controlled collapse? Maybe, but I don't feel that this was the result of a US Governmental conspiracy. IMO, it was an intentional two-part process with that and the planes crashing into it.

But then again, if this was purely a terrorist act, wouldn't it better serves their purpose if two such massive buildings DID tip to a side as they collapsed? Dunno, but with OBL out of the picture now, maybe it's all just one step closer to this never happening again.

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Shawn yes it would have been better for the terrorists if the buildings did fall over. Real nice of them to be so considerate. Yet if the terrorists did use controlled demolition to bring down the towers, why use the planes? Terrorist acts never benefit the terrorist, it benefits the state that the acts are committed against. What did OBL get out of this? What did the military industrial complex get out of it? Especially since the cold war was over? You keep forgetting OBL is the patsy. Terrorists could not have put the nanothermite in the buildings and it is very doubtful they could even obtain the high tech stuff.

Asymmetrical damage and asymmetrical fires do not cause a symmetrical collapse and it certainly doesn't cause a global symmetrical collapse.

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Originally Posted by Whitney Stocker:
Shawn yes it would have been better for the terrorists if the buildings did fall over. Real nice of them to be so considerate. Yet if the terrorists did use controlled demolition to bring down the towers, why use the planes? Terrorist acts never benefit the terrorist, it benefits the state that the acts are committed against. What did OBL get out of this? What did the military industrial complex get out of it? Especially since the cold war was over? You keep forgetting OBL is the patsy. Terrorists could not have put the nanothermite in the buildings and it is very doubtful they could even obtain the high tech stuff.

Asymmetrical damage and asymmetrical fires do not cause a symmetrical collapse and it certainly doesn't cause a global symmetrical collapse.

How is it that a terrorist act never benefits the terrorist?

I think these were controlled demolitions in both towers, which in my mind is the bigger significance. I think the planes were meant to conceal the controlled demolitions.

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Well shawn how did OBL benefit? he lost his home base in Afghanistan, he had the whole world looking for him. It started a war in Iraq. The whole middle east is in an uproar. How has he benefited?

And you are right, the planes were to disguise the demolitions.

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Originally Posted by Whitney Stocker:
Well shawn how did OBL benefit? he lost his home base in Afghanistan, he had the whole world looking for him. It started a war in Iraq. The whole middle east is in an uproar. How has he benefited?

And you are right, the planes were to disguise the demolitions.

Maybe the aspects of benefits are semantic. Granted, I wouldn't have traded my little lifestyle with OBL's for even a microsecond. However, I think OBL benefitted in a sense that he:

1) Flared/Influenced a great deal of racism against Islam, particularly with those unable or unwilling to differentiate between Islam and Terrorists who say they're Islamic (pfff, P.C., shakes head)
2) Influenced a massive amount of fear.
3) Established a massive amount of recognition.
4) This is semi-opinion, semi-conjecture, but I also feel OBL influenced a great deal of vitriol, distrust, and slander towards President Obama, which is probably coincidental given the President's varying ethnicity. The point here is simply to identify with the vast political dysfunction we have that's far greater than (I think) it's ever been in the entire US history.
5) I suspect OBL was a psychopath (his followers largely sociopaths) and I feel he experienced unimaginable amounts of satisfaction from his behavior and actions.

I'm sure there's more I could add to this list, but this demonstrates the ideas of how I suspect OBL benefited as a terrorist.

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Originally Posted by Whitney Stocker:


You can't apply Occam's razor to this, yes it is complicated, but you can't ignore the physical laws the official conspiracy theory violates. Buildings can't fall into themselves, the path of greatest resistance. There are many cases where buildings have collapsed, they ALL fall to the side, except controlled demolition. The speed of the collapses are impossible without removing the lower floors first, it violates the law of conservation of momentum. And now we have the evidence that proves it. Undetonated nanothermite and the product of detonated  nanthermite in the dust. This stuff is very high tech, it can be painted on the steel. Who is being unrealistic?

I never said who I thought is responsible. I don't know if BO is in on it or not. The president is only as smart as his advisers allow him to be.

Heck, not only would Obama have to be part of the conspiracy but we've conveniently forgotten that Bin Laden bombed the WTC in February, 1993.  Since Bill Clinton was President, he'd have to be part of the conspiracy, too.  But then, so would George H Bush because of the timing.

Now we have to add Obama. The administrations of four Presidents ... yeah ... sure!

And sure, I can apply Occam's Razor.  I can see why you can't but I sure as hell can.

For example ... the "free falling violates the laws of physics" theory is a load.  All one have to do is watch these loads fall and all the complicated conspiracy stuff falls with them.



Planes hit buildings ... buildings go boom ... buildings fall.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:
Maybe the aspects of benefits are semantic. Granted, I wouldn't have traded my little lifestyle with OBL's for even a microsecond. However, I think OBL benefitted in a sense that he:

1) Flared/Influenced a great deal of racism against Islam, particularly with those unable or unwilling to differentiate between Islam and Terrorists who say they're Islamic (pfff, P.C., shakes head)
2) Influenced a massive amount of fear.
3) Established a massive amount of recognition.
4) This is semi-opinion, semi-conjecture, but I also feel OBL influenced a great deal of vitriol, distrust, and slander towards President Obama, which is probably coincidental given the President's varying ethnicity. The point here is simply to identify with the vast political dysfunction we have that's far greater than (I think) it's ever been in the entire US history.
5) I suspect OBL was a psychopath (his followers largely sociopaths) and I feel he experienced unimaginable amounts of satisfaction from his behavior and actions.

I'm sure there's more I could add to this list, but this demonstrates the ideas of how I suspect OBL benefited as a terrorist.

Bin Laden was a Saudi and a self-appointed spiritual guru who declared Fatwah's against the United States generally because of the various manifestations of US policy in the Middle East... but more specifically because we (at their invitation) opened military bases in Saudi Arabia.

He didn't like that and turned Al Queada's focus to drive the infidels out of his land, out of the Middle East, and to defeat the USA.

His belief system was based in Shariah law and when you add that to his megalomania, the world got what it got.

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Originally Posted by Teri Lacy:
Okay, let's assume for a moment the government perpetuated this huge tragic event upon it's citizens ... this master plan to, I don't know what the purpose ... kill, maim, devastate Americans from all walks of life.  Some victims even employed by this evil group.  And they are ALL great actors and faked all the heartache and pain they shared with us and that was felt back on and around 9/11.  And not a one of the group responsible for this master plan is coming forward claiming it or telling "the truth" ?  

That is more difficult for me to believe than any of the scientific conundrums the conspiracy theorist put out there.

Originally Posted by Scott Terry:
Heck, not only would Obama have to be part of the conspiracy but we've conveniently forgotten that Bin Laden bombed the WTC in February, 1993.  Since Bill Clinton was President, he'd have to be part of the conspiracy, too.  But then, so would George H Bush because of the timing.

Now we have to add Obama. The administrations of four Presidents ... yeah ... sure!

Exactly ...
Heck ... folks couldn't even keep their mouths shut that ole Bill got a BJ ... how they gonna keep this one under the lid ?

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Well scott, I said at OR NEAR free fall. The twin towers fell at NEAR free fall. According to the 911 Commission, the south tower fell in a little over 10 seconds and the north tower fell in a little over 11 seconds. If you would have dropped something off the towers in a vacuum, it would have hit the ground in 9.25 seconds. Near free fall is not acceptable in a gravitational collapse if the building is falling into itself (the path of most resistance). The bottom parts of the towers were undamaged and build much stronger than the tops since they had a heaver load to support. There would have been great resistance and they definitely would not have accelerated. The reason I said AT free fall is because tower 7 did free fall for 2.5 seconds.




No scott you can't use Occam's Razor because you can't ignore physical laws in it's application. You can't use magic to prove your point.