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Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
Confession: My first thought when I first heard this news was, "It's finally happened. Some nutcase has taken the retoric to heart."  And because it was a democrat, I figured she was shot by someone rightwing.  Had it been a repub, I might have thought it was a leftie who had done the shooting. However, given the fact that so many people were shot, I quickly suspected it was someone who was definitely unhinged, and it might not be strictly political.  I went to youtube to read what the suspect had posted, to get more of an idea of where his head was.  No doubt from reading his stuff that there was some mental illness going on there.  Believe it or not, there were people posting comments saying in effect that because the congresswoman was a "blue dog" dem and the judge was a republican, they believed that President Obama had issued "a hit" on them.  (because they didn't buy into his "agenda") Anyway, most will agree that the guy is whacked and so far, it doesn't appear that he had any particular political agenda or that he was antisemetic (as was also suggested).  However, we have no way of knowing at the moment if the guy listened to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.  There is a lot more information that needs to come out before we may understand his motivation better (if that's possible).  

I do think that people in the public need to be careful with the language and retoric they use, because you never know when someone will take what they say litterally, when they are only speaking figuratively.

and i can agree with that. but i listen to rush and watch glenn sometimes, and i've just never seen or heard anything out of them that would inspire violence. i've never heard them call for arms or any kind of uprisings. i could see how there's an argument (even though i disagree with it) for sarah palin's hunting references, but i think that since most lefties don't watch glenn or listen to rush, they can sometimes kind of assume the worst about their programs. as i'm sure is sometimes the case with left leaning programs and righties.

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anyone watch obama's speech at the memorial? i won't judge obama on it, but i think they might've chosen the wrong venue. it just seemed more like a pep-rally than a solemn mournful event. there were a lot of college kids in the crowd, and we know how popular obama remains with them, so this kind of led to a lot of awkward cheering, and i think obama tried his best to cut down on that as much as he could. but particularly in the first half of his speech, it just seemed strange, with random shouts, and woops, and applause.

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While I agree the setting ,and cheerleading was a distraction .The message was clear. No agenda,no policy for once. He also kept to the victims/Heroes in the speech. He subtly blasted the critics who are in a back n forth war. I dont usually like his speeches ,this one was  ok.

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Following this logic, I doubt Kennedy would have been re-elected.  Once he revealed his real national identity in Berlin, obviously the US electorate would have had to literally interpret the rhetoric and ditch him.  Come on.  If they can allow Saw Volumes 1-Infinity to get released to be watched by adults then I think people have to appreciate that some words chosen by politicians aren't the real issue here.

This is all about making political capital and finding yet another credible pretext.  It's what the left does- constantly

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speaking of hate filled rhetoric...

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Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
Confession: My first thought when I first heard this news was, "It's finally happened. Some nutcase has taken the retoric to heart."  And because it was a democrat, I figured she was shot by someone rightwing.  Had it been a repub, I might have thought it was a leftie who had done the shooting.

Is there any historical precedence for a conservative or right-winger to have done physical violence against an elected official? JFK's murderer was a communist and Cuban sympathizer. Robert Kennedy's murderer was an anti-Israeli. MLK Jr.'s assassin might have been conservative (certainly a serial criminal).

Recently the NYT Square bomber would count as left leaning, as does the Ft Hood shooter. The professor that went on a rampage in Huntsville was a big Obama supporter. The person that flew a plane into an IRS building was a communist sympathizer.

But I want to add, in the 60s it was left-on-left crime. The New Left students went after liberal professors; conservative professors were mostly left alone. For goodness sakes many of the Jonestown Kool-Aid drinkers were literally San Francisco liberals who aggressively campaigned for Harvey Milk.

Now I am not saying the right is as pure as the wind driving snow, or that the left = the debil. What I am saying is that violence in this country is predominantly done by the insane, then the left. And I think it is reasonable to see why the left is more violent, the modern leftists ideology started with Rousseau and the French Revolution.

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well, the left generally supports overthrowing the current system, and revolution is ingrained in its ideology, whereas the right seeks to preserve the current system.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
anyone watch obama's speech at the memorial? i won't judge obama on it, but i think they might've chosen the wrong venue. it just seemed more like a pep-rally than a solemn mournful event. there were a lot of college kids in the crowd, and we know how popular obama remains with them, so this kind of led to a lot of awkward cheering, and i think obama tried his best to cut down on that as much as he could. but particularly in the first half of his speech, it just seemed strange, with random shouts, and woops, and applause.

I did watch part of his speech at the memorial...had to turn it off...because I felt that it turned into a pep rally instead of the REAL memorial for real people.  He would have been better to step off the podium and let the friends and family speak for all of those victims...isn't that what happens in a REAL memorial, anyways?  This was not the time to have cheers and woops and applause.  Unless, of course, they were applauding those families who will now have to live without their loved ones.  The saddest moment was for the 9 year old girl who lost her life.  Her parents were not even at the event -- she had gone with a neighbor.  Imagine getting a call that your child had been taken to the hospital....getting there and realizing that you never had time to say goodbye.  I think THAT will be forever etched in my mind

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at least that little girl's organs helped to save the life another child. that's about the only solace to be had.

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Originally Posted by Argan Johnson:

Is there any historical precedence for a conservative or right-winger to have done physical violence against an elected official?

Yep.  One might say that Lincoln was murdered by a conservative.  John Wilkes Boothe.  Lincoln had overthrown the South, abolished slavery and Boothe wanted to be seen as a champion of the South.  He wanted to strike a blow against the North and against the man he saw as the oppressor.

Also Leon Czolgosz assasinated Republican William McKinley.  Czolgosz was an anarchist who hated McKinley.

And then there was Arthur Bremer shot Gov George Wallace during his campaign for President.  While I'm not sure of his political leanings, among his possessions were Wallace campaign buttons, a Confederate flag, boxes of shells, old high school themed pornographic magazines, newspapers, Black Panther literature, a booklet entitled 101 Things To Do in Jail and various newspaper clippings, including one on the difficulty of providing security for campaigning politicians. In Bremer's diary were comments such as "My country tis of thee land of sweet bigotry", "Never say colored, say Negro, so here is a negro card", "My blood is black", "Cheer up Oswald", "White collar, conservative, middle class, Republican, suburbanite robot", "A Thundering of hooves and out of the western sky came the colored man" and "If I live tomorrow then it will be a long time".

So make of that what you will.

I see Bremer as someone similiar to this Loughner guy...a nut who just wanted to kill a  politicians.

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NPR Double Standard: Taxpayer Funds Pay for Racist Rant



Project 21's Jerome Hudson is calling for an end to all National Public Radio subsidies in light of NPR's broadcast of a racialist rant on January 12.

In a segment, titled "Across America Latino Community Sighs With Relief" featured on the program "All Things Considered," Daisy Hernandez, a writer on race and politics for the New York Times, said:


It's safe to say there was a collective sigh of brown relief when the Tucson killer turned out to be a  gringo. Had the shooter been Latino, media pundits wouldn't be discussing the impact of nasty politics on a young man this week -- they'd be demanding an even more stringent anti-immigrant policy. The new members of the House would be stepping over each other to propose new legislation for more guns on the border, more mothers to be deported, and more employers to be penalized for hiring brown people. Obama would be attending funerals and telling the nation tonight that he was going to increase security just about everywhere.

In short, the only reason the nation is taking a few days to reflect on the animosity in politics today is precisely that the shooter was not Latino...

I admit sadly that it was only after I saw the shooter's gringo surname that I was able to go on and read the rest of the news about those who lost their lives on Saturday and those who, like Representative Giffords, were severely wounded.

"Hernandez's comments and NPR's poor decision to air them highlights a hypocrisy at NPR," said Project 21's Jerome Hudson. "NPR, in airing it, effectively perpetuated America's racial divide."

Hudson added: "If her use of a racial slur wasn't bad enough, Daisy Hernandez's lack of concern for the bereaved families and the injured only add to the pain. The question that should be asked here is: Why is NPR's damaging left-wing reporting still being subsidized by the American taxpayer?"