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from the new york times

During Tucson’s first rush hour since a weekend shooting left six people dead and 14 wounded, including Representative Gabrielle Giffords, talk radio hosts pushed back against arguments that their heated political rhetoric had played a role in the tragedy.

Phone calls poured in to stations across the AM dial to denounce Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik, who said at a news conference over the weekend that Arizona had become “the mecca for prejudice and bigotry” and that local TV and radio hosts should do some “soul-searching.” “I would say that his comments have incited stupidity around the world,” said Garret Lewis, host of The Morning Ritual on 790 AM. “People have the image now that we’re a bunch of racist bigots and there are shootouts in the streets. Again he has absolutely no proof that any of this is true.”

Steve, a caller on the Jon Justice Show on 104.1 FM, said Mr. Dupnik’s statements “showed him for the buffoon he is.” Later, a called named Lee called the sheriff “a blithering idiot.” Caller after caller came up with their own colorful descriptions.

In the incredulous language of the AM dial, Mr. Justice defended his show, and dismissed the notion that Arizona’s heated political culture served as the backdrop to the shooting or an inspiration for the suspect, Jared L. Loughner.

“This is a crazy person!” he said. “Politics is out the window — you’re a nutbag! No amount of controlling talk radio is going to change that!”

“People need to go and point fingers,” he said. “It’s unfortunate but some people do. They have to find somebody to demonize.”

Some callers however made it clear that they believed the state’s conservative-leaning radio hosts bore responsibility.

“You ought to be ashamed,” said a caller named Dale to Mr. Justice’s program. “You are part of the problem.”

Mr. Justice, his voice cracking, responded: “There’s nothing I have said on this radio station that could have inspired” this guy.

A caller who identified himself as Rick told the host Mike Gallagher of KKNT, 960 AM, in Phoenix that “individuals like yourself instill fear” in people.

“Was Jared Loughner a Mike Gallagher listener?” the host asked. “You’re dishonest, Rick.”

On Wake Up Tucson on 1030 AM, the hosts said their political conversations were more reasoned than inflammatory.

“When we take an issue on, we really, really understand where we’re going,” said Joe Higgins.

“Ninety-nine percent of the stuff that we’ve ever talked about, we’re dead on,” said his partner, Chris DeSimone. “We’re constantly doing our homework.”

On the Morning Ritual, it was barely light outside when Mr. Lewis began knocking down arguments that after the shooting, gun control laws should be tightened. “We can’t always depend on the police, the sheriff’s department or anyone else to protect us,” he said. “At some point, we have to do it ourselves.”

Most callers to the shows agreed with the hosts and defended their right to speak.

“I don’t know what you did wrong,” said a caller to Mr. Justice’s show named John. “Keep the freedom of speech going.”  

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I personally agree , they need to argue about something. I honestly dont buy that it is sarah's fault,or radio,or the riotous lefts. Then again I dont want to give them the acknowledgement that the pundits are really important.
That said ,the kid was disturbed. I think it more like the John Lennon shooting.IMO.

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Conservative media figures like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are raising fears that liberals could use the Tucson, Ariz., shootings as an excuse to clamp down on their voices, even as two prominent liberals made public statements urging that the Federal Communications Commission and Fox News do just that.

Limbaugh and Beck, along with other conservative voices like Sarah Palin and Bill O’Reilly, had come under fire in the hours after the shooting from liberals such as Keith Olbermann and Paul Krugman, who accused them of using violent rhetoric that could push an unhinged person over the edge. But no link has been found between suspected shooter Jared Lee Loughner and any of these media figures or Palin.

Limbaugh railed against the left’s attempts to “massage” the shooting “for their political benefit,” saying Democrats were just waiting for an excuse to “regulate out of business their political opponents.”

“I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody in the Obama administration or some FCC bureaucrat or some Democrat congressman has it already written up, such legislation, sitting in a desk drawer somewhere just waiting for the right event for a clampdown,” Limbaugh said. “They have been trying this ever since the Oklahoma City bombing.”

In fact, Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.), the third-ranking Democrat in Congress and one of the more outspoken voices in the wake of the shooting, blamed vitriol in the public discourse for the events and told the Charleston Post and Courier on Monday he wants to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, a defunct policy requiring media to cover both sides of controversial issues that many in the industry expect would mean the death of conservative talk radio. (Both President Barack Obama and Clyburn’s daughter Mignon Clyburn, an FCC commissioner, have said they do not support the policy.)

And David Brock, CEO of the liberal watchdog Media Matters, wrote an open letter to Rupert Murdoch calling on him to fire or rein in Beck and Palin for their use of violent rhetoric on Fox News.

Palin has come under the most criticism since Saturday, largely because she had once posted on her SarahPAC page a “target list” of lawmakers she wanted to see unseated, which included cross hairs over Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’s district.

Fox News Chief Roger Ailes argued that Palin has just as often been the victim of this kind of imagery. “Listen, I have a picture of Sarah Palin hanging from the end of a rope,” he said. “They made a doll up like her and hung her.”

Beck riffed on this same theme on his show, pointing listeners to Michelle Malkin’s roundup Monday of some of the ugliest propaganda that has been aimed at people like Palin and President George W. Bush.

On his Fox News show, Beck accused liberals and the media of dusting off an old narrative and applying it to the shootings without evidence.

“How do you control Sarah Palin? You don’t. You just shut her down,” he said. He accused liberals of trying to silence the opposition, saying, “They can do it with the Fairness Doctrine.”

The Fairness Doctrine was introduced as FCC policy in 1949 and applies to all holders of broadcast licenses — i.e., not to cable or the Internet. President Ronald Reagan struck it down in 1989, but in recent years, various Democrats in Congress have expressed support for reinstating it. Conservatives argue that Democrats’ enthusiasm for bringing back the policy is merely a response to their distaste for conservative talk radio.

“The script has already been written,” Beck said. “All they are waiting for is the perfect case. And every time these things happen, they roll this case out.”

The last time a violent attack prompted a nationwide debate about political vitriol in the media was, of course, the Oklahoma City bombing, which President Clinton blamed in part on the climate created by conservative talk radio.

Limbaugh, as the largest talk radio figure of that time, found himself in the middle of that debate and regards the current debate as more of the same.

The difference is that this time, conservative media are not the outliers that they once were.

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Originally Posted by John Kaschnigg:
I personally agree , they need to argue about something. I honestly dont buy that it is sarah's fault,or radio,or the riotous lefts. Then again I dont want to give them the acknowledgement that the pundits are really important.
That said ,the kid was disturbed. I think it more like the John Lennon shooting.IMO.

i think it's sometimes hard to understand how psychopaths can do the things they do. it seems there has to be some kind of a rational explanation, but not when dealing with irrational people.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

Originally Posted by John Kaschnigg:
I personally agree , they need to argue about something. I honestly dont buy that it is sarah's fault,or radio,or the riotous lefts. Then again I dont want to give them the acknowledgement that the pundits are really important.
That said ,the kid was disturbed. I think it more like the John Lennon shooting.IMO.

i think it's sometimes hard to understand how psychopaths can do the things they do. it seems there has to be some kind of a rational explanation, but not when dealing with irrational people.

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I agree - I think psychos are psychos and no matter what rhetoric is being spewed, gun control laws are out there, and a show of force, some will just do what they are going to do.

I do think that however politics have gotten to a "toxic" level in some respects, in that there are a lot more cheap shots, using events like this to say the other is wrong, using gun sights (really? I mean what level of taste was that!) to mark out your opponents on a map, and it is certainly not a nice thing to watch.  Which is exactly what I do, I turn it off.  I watch the political news from sites/channels that I think are not being overly one sided (IMO of course, to each their own), and if I don't like it, think it's to negative, etc., I SHUT IT OFF!

As someone else said, they have to have something to argue about, or else we would be a one party system, correct?

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Man, what a bizarre, depressing few days 2011 has been!

Here's what I think.  (I know ya'll really wanted to know).  

There are psychos in this world, both left and right.  They're everywhere...probably in your own neighborhoods.  And I think sometimes something sets them off.  

It appears this killer in Arizona was very anti-govt.  (I think he'd written a buncha stuff on the net).  I suspect that he felt our govt wasnt doing whatever it was he thought it should, and he took advantage of a 'soft target' and shot a bunch of people and a Congress woman.

But you know...this isnt unusual really.  A psycho shot MLK!  A psycho shot JKF.  A psycho shot Lincoln and thought everyone would consider him a hero.  (Unfortunately killing Lincoln was probably the worst thing that could have happened for the South).

A psycho shot up a School board meeting recently.  A psycho flew a place into the IRS recently.  A psycho blew up a building in Oklahoma City.  A psycho led a bunch of people to drink cianide in Jonesborough.  And then there was Waco.  This stuff happens.

Why?  Because there are psychos out there!  And i dont think it really matters if Obama is the president or Bush.  You merely exchange one group of psychos for another.  

That's why it is so important to support the police and our military and govt forces.  It's why I want to see our FBI and CIA strengthened...to keep psychos from blowing up our bridges and buildings and the like.  Not saying a police state is the answer.  But we have law enforcement for a reason.  Coz there are nuts out there.  

The 60s proved that the idea of flower power, communes and everyone coming together in peace and harmony was destroyed by people like Charles Manson.  1 nut can queer the whole deal.

From a religious standpoint, I see it as the presence of sin in the world.  We have a nation that is among the best in history.  We have a higher standard of living than most other nations.  We have more wealth (even in our bad economy) than most other nations.  We are really more tolerant than most other nations.  We extend our rights to non-citizens.  We give aid and comfort to more people than anyone in the world.

And yet we still have evil people who would do us harm.

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I dont know how someone can blame Sarah Palin or Sheriff Joe (of Maracopa Co) for bigotry in Arizona.  Arizona is merely in the news now.  But as I illustrated above, who do we blame for JFK or MLK?  

What I see, is some people in this world who go out of the way to twist the world of someone to make them appear evil.  Take Palin for example.  She said something about a list of 'targets'...political figures that ought to be unseated.  I guess some people see that word 'target' and think its code for shooting the politicians.  

Limbaugh made a good point about some people using news events to attack the right.  I think this is true, but I also think both left and right use these tactics.

Some people say Fox news does this.  I say Huffington Post and Moveon.org are worse!

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well i don't like any time some secret message has to be inferred based on what people say. oh sarah palin put bulleyes on a map, therefore she must be secretly telling people to assassinate elected officials, and only crazies can understand the code. i guess we can't have "battleground states" anymore, and can't "rally the troops" or use any kinds of figures of speech which might be construed as "violent rhetoric."

and while we're on maps, what about this democratic map with targets on it?

  

haven't heard anything about it.

and i still haven't heard one example of toxic rhetoric from the right which could drive people to acts of violence. where is all this rhetoric? and why wasn't the hate filled rhetoric directed toward bush condemned by these same people condemning the rhetoric from today? have you heard about ANY of this?

September 2, 2004: Gun Shot Fired Into Huntington, WV, Republican Headquarters.
September 3, 2004: Windows Broken, Anti-Bush Messages Scrawled At Gallatin County, MT, Republican Headquarters.
September 13, 2004: Swastika Drawn On Duluth, MN, Resident’s Lawn, Signs Also Defaced With Words “Nazi” And “Liar.”
September 23, 2004: Office Ransacked During Break-In At Vilas County, WI, Republican Headquarters, Obscene Words And Graphic Pictures Sprayed On Campaign Signs.
September 26, 2004: Windows Smashed And Signs Stolen At Oxford, MS, Bush-Cheney ‘04 Headquarters.
October 1, 2004: Swastika Burned Into Front Yard Of Bush-Cheney ‘04 Supporter In Madison, WI.
October 5, 2004: Gun Shots Fired Into Knoxville, TN, Bush-Cheney ‘04 Office, Shattering Office’s Glass Front Doors.
October 5, 2004:  AFL-CIO ACTIVISTS RANSACK BUSH HEADQUARTERS IN ORLANDO, The Orlando Sentinel . . . part of 20 coordinated union attacks across U.S.
October 13, 2004: Kerry Supporter Caught Stealing Bush Sign In Cape Girardeau, MO, Pulled Knife On Sign’s Owner And Was Arrested.
October 26, 2004:  A Florida man has been charged with attempting to run over controversial Republican congresswoman Katherine Harris with his Cadillac.
October, 2008:  Sarah Palin effigy hanging in someone’s yard
Dec 12, 2008 – Wasila Church Bombing (Sarah Palin’s Church)
August (1st week?) 2009:  a black gentleman who was a Tea Party participant named Kenneth Gladney went to a town-hall meeting hosted by Rep. Russ Carnahan, Missouri Democrat. While passing out “Don’t Tread on Me” flags, he was viciously attacked by Service Employees International Union (SEIU) members. One called him a “****.”  A woman filming the violence also was accosted.  NBC News.

and this is just a snippet of violent events carried out against conservatives. can you imagine how much different the media coverage would've been if republicans were responsible for all this, and democrats were the victims?

how about former rep. kanjorski? he recently called for "civility and respect" in political discourse, yet back in october, he said florida governor rick scott should be shot. sen. claire mccaskill said a few months back that if the bush tax cuts were extended, then it would be time for pitchforks.

yet they have the gall to suggest that the right is to blame for this shooting? they have the gall to call for civility?

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this REALLY takes the cake.


Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-VT, today sent out a fundraising email to supporters in which he includes his analysis of the Arizona shootings that ties the tragedy to “right-wing reactionaries.”

“This horrendous act of violence is not some kind of strange aberration for this area where, it appears, threats and acts of violence are part of the political climate,” Sanders said in his letter. “Nobody can honestly express surprise that such a tragedy finally occurred.”

The Vermont senator, who caucuses with Democrats, cited past Arizona incidents such as vandalism at Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ district office after the health care reform vote and Sarah Palin’s “crosshairs” map, as well as other outbreaks of violence like when a bullet was shot into Rep. Raul Grijalva’s office.

"In light of all of this violence – both actual and threatened – is Arizona a state in which people who are not Republicans are able to participate freely and fully in the democratic process?” asks Sanders. “Have right-wing reactionaries, through threats and acts of violence, intimidated people with different points of view from expressing their political positions?”

“My colleague, Senator John McCain, issued a very strong statement after the shooting in which he condemned the perpetrator of the attack. I commend him for that. But I believe Senator McCain and other Arizona Republicans need to do more,” Sanders said. “As the elder statesman of Arizona politics McCain needs to stand up and denounce the increasingly violent rhetoric coming from the right-wing and exert his influence to create a civil political environment in his state.”

He added that "the Republican Party, big money corporate interests and right-wing organizations will vigorously oppose me" in his bid for a second term.

He thanked supporters for contributions already sent and added, "There is no question but that your financial support now and in the future is much appreciated."

Brian Walsh, spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee in Washington, said Sanders was trying to "raise campaign money off the murder of six Americans."

Sanders said in his letter that the nation's political climate had been damaged by a "right-wing media echo chamber" that is "transmitting a reactionary world view to the tens of millions of millions of Americans who watch or listen to them every day."

In a separate statement, state Republican Chairman Steve Larrabee said: "By using this tragedy to demonize those he disagrees with, the Senator is doing exactly what he pretends to deplore."

Sanders' office issued a statement saying the letter covered a number of issues facing the country.


shame on you bernie sanders! shame on you!

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palin responds.


Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin pushes back against the idea that heated political speech played a role in the Tucson shootings that killed six people and seriously wounded U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

In a forceful and unapologetic statement released early Wednesday, Sarah Palin dismissed critics who had suggested that the former Alaska governor's firearms-infused rhetoric contributed to the shootings in Tucson that killed six and wounded 14, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, contending they "incite the hatred and violence they purport to condemn."

"Like many, I've spent the past few days reflecting on what happened and praying for guidance," Palin said. "After this shocking tragedy, I listened at first puzzled, then with concern, and now with sadness, to the irresponsible statements from people attempting to apportion blame for this terrible event."

Palin strongly pushed back at the notion that overheated political speech helped give rise to a climate that placed lawmakers such as Giffords at risk.

"Vigorous and spirited public debates during elections are among our most cherished traditions. And after the election, we shake hands and get back to work, and often both sides find common ground back in D.C. and elsewhere," Palin said. "As I said while campaigning for others last March in Arizona during a very heated primary race, 'We know violence isn't the answer. When we "take up our arms," we're talking about our vote.' "

She saved her harshest words for "media and pundits," whom she said "should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the hatred and violence that they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible."

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

and while we're on maps, what about this democratic map with targets on it?

  

haven't heard anything about it.

Well, if someone gets shot with a bow and arrow, we'll know who to blame then :-P

There's blame to be shared by all sides on this. The right wing pundits aren't as much to blame as some on the left are saying, but neither are they as blameless as they're trying to make out to be themselves. Is like Laura said, psychos are psychos, all all they need is something to fixate on to trigger them off -  is Jodie Foster to blame for John Hinckley trying to shoot Ronnie Reagan?    

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the real kicker is that now that palin has finally responded to the all the allegations made against her over the last 4 days, ABC's "the note" said, "Sarah Palin, once again, has found a way to become part of the story."

the blatancy is astounding. she's been attacked for 4 days straight, despite the fact that there's no evidence of a link, and when she finally responds, shes "found a way to become part of the story." this after facing criticism for her silence up to this point. if it weren't for real, it would be funny.

and miles, flat out, the right isn't responsible for any of this. loughner's best friend, zach osler, told ABC news today that, " [loughner] did not watch TV, he disliked the news, he didn't listen to political radio, he didn't take sides, he wasn't on the left, he wasn't on the right."

so it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention, that this entire national debate has been completely fabricated. this guy had it out for giffords since 07, before palin was on the scene and before the tea party existed. check this out.


Federal investigators found the words "Die Cops" and "Die ****" scrawled on a letter from U.S. congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords's office in the home of the shooting suspect, a sheriff's department official said Tuesday night.

Captain Chris Nanos of the Pima County Sheriff's Department was briefed on the findings of a search of the suspect's ranch-style house where he lives with his parents. Capt. Nanos said that the suspect, Jared Lee Loughner, had also referenced an assassination in handwritten notes on the letter.

The letter, which dated from 2007, was a form document sent by Ms. Giffords's staff to thank Mr. Loughner for attending one of her events. "He obviously kept the letter for a long time," Capt. Nanos said.


so again, all this has been fabricated, and the democrats have tried to cash in on this tragedy as much as possible. utterly despicable.

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Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:


Well, if someone gets shot with a bow and arrow, we'll know who to blame then :-P  

if that were to happen, and the above map were to be blamed, then i would find it just as ridiculous.

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Confession: My first thought when I first heard this news was, "It's finally happened. Some nutcase has taken the retoric to heart."  And because it was a democrat, I figured she was shot by someone rightwing.  Had it been a repub, I might have thought it was a leftie who had done the shooting. However, given the fact that so many people were shot, I quickly suspected it was someone who was definitely unhinged, and it might not be strictly political.  I went to youtube to read what the suspect had posted, to get more of an idea of where his head was.  No doubt from reading his stuff that there was some mental illness going on there.  Believe it or not, there were people posting comments saying in effect that because the congresswoman was a "blue dog" dem and the judge was a republican, they believed that President Obama had issued "a hit" on them.  (because they didn't buy into his "agenda") Anyway, most will agree that the guy is whacked and so far, it doesn't appear that he had any particular political agenda or that he was antisemetic (as was also suggested).  However, we have no way of knowing at the moment if the guy listened to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.  There is a lot more information that needs to come out before we may understand his motivation better (if that's possible).  

I do think that people in the public need to be careful with the language and retoric they use, because you never know when someone will take what they say litterally, when they are only speaking figuratively.