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Thanks Jim that was very interesting. I sent you a PM with a link to the Qi Ji Kwangs 32 posture form scanned. I think you will find it interesting, it's an actual form with one move linking to the other with transitions. So it's not 32 separate movements as many suspected, at least not as proposed in this book.


So as one can easily see the authors of the MYDBTJ shuffled the order either on purpose or by accident and excluded from the form multiple postures as well and listed them at the end as 'extra' which would give us actually a total of 39 not 32 movements. Seven extra motions.

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hi mister segarra, thank you for sending it, here is my opinion of that book (i have seen it before)

- there should not be fist and palm kung fu salute at the beginning. tying clothes lazily IS the salute. fist and palm salute is for bowing to an audience for performance. this shows a big deeper problem. i never heard of the author either.
- the author tried to replicate the diagrams instead of reading the fist poems
- the book makes the  form stand in one place and turning all the time. thats impossible. -the movements in the book does not resemble the way the 32 techniques are performed in traditional northern kung fu today. the movements the book gave looked like the diagrams in the 32 but dont match the descriptions.


many styles of northern kung fu mentioned in the 32 article still exists today. they all have pieces of the 32 techniques because general qi took techniques from multiple styles. when the technique is done they all resemble the descriptions in the 1558 32 article, but not this book.

the book might not be very reliable in my opinion. the original 32 article was very clear and precise and used lots of northern longfist codewords.  
my opinion is  the korean army shuffling the technique clearly shows there was no exact sequence, and emphasis was on the individual techniques. but th e korean army created a unique korean sequence that can be easily recreated today, because they are common techniques.
may i ask do you have the original article from the muyedobotongji? i dont have it anymore (i read it from beijing online library)


is the 29 postures this one? http://www.emacus.com/abouttaepage6_b.gif
because i remember reading the muye and the instructions were clear and straightforward.

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Hi Jim, I checked my book and it definitely does not stay in one place actually it moves around quite a bit.

The Hand salute could have been added as an after though.

As for the diagrams vs the fist poems that's beyond what I've researched so far. I have Qi Ji Kwangs test but translating it character for character is laborious for a non native Chinese reader.

Whoops you modified your post after I posted. Yes I do have the MYDBTJ and yes that is the sequence.

Jim I know this is a lot to ask but if you ever get the time would it be possible to perform the 29 sequence as you believe them to be?

I think it would be very interesting to see how a Northern longfist practioner performs the 29 movements.

Thanks you are very helpful.

D.S

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hi mister segarra no problem. ill borrow my friends camera again.

may i ask have you tried recreating the sequence or anything from the muyedobotongji?

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Master Segarra
the 24ki people base their material on that of the Korean Sibpalki preservation society who research the MYDTJ.
I cannot say how much of a difference there may be apart from the additional 6 methods, but it should be fairly close to being an accurate representation. The Sibpalki group is not one that just puts various postures of the MYDTJ together in a form as some other groups may do, but rather research it. For instance there are errors in the MYDTJ that was recognised at the time of production but never got fixed in a subsequent publication due to the changes that occured in Korean society at the time and if a person trying to recreate these methods are not aware of these, then they will obviously make errors also.
The Sibpalki people above are the same group that I linked to in the online learning course.
I am sure they will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
If you like PM me and I'll put you in touch with them.

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Jim, yes I have. It's not ready for public release yet, but I'd like to see how it relates to what you are familiar with. So thank you for your help. I'll send you a rough draft of a book I've been working on.

Damian, yes I'd love to share with the Shipalgi folks. It's nice to see so many people interested in the MYDBTJ.

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hi mister segarra, i am busy these days school and i will try to find time some time. the techniques the muye 24ki and sippalgi people did are legit variations of common northern techniques and will resemble more the muyedobotongji than what i do.

jim

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hi mister segarra, thank you for sending it, here is my opinion of that book (i have seen it before)

- there should not be fist and palm kung fu salute at the beginning. tying clothes lazily IS the salute. fist and palm salute is for bowing to an audience for performance. this shows a big deeper problem. i never heard of the author either.
- the author tried to replicate the diagrams instead of reading the fist poems
- the book makes the  form stand in one place and turning all the time. thats impossible. -the movements in the book does not resemble the way the 32 techniques are performed in traditional northern kung fu today. the movements the book gave looked like the diagrams in the 32 but dont match the descriptions.


many styles of northern kung fu mentioned in the 32 article still exists today. they all have pieces of the 32 techniques because general qi took techniques from multiple styles. when the technique is done they all resemble the descriptions in the 1558 32 article, but not this book.

the book might not be very reliable in my opinion. the original 32 article was very clear and precise and used lots of northern longfist codewords.  
my opinion is  the korean army shuffling the technique clearly shows there was no exact sequence, and emphasis was on the individual techniques. but th e korean army created a unique korean sequence that can be easily recreated today, because they are common techniques.
may i ask do you have the original article from the muyedobotongji? i dont have it anymore (i read it from beijing online library)


is the 29 postures this one? http://www.emacus.com/abouttaepage6_b.gif
because i remember reading the muye and the instructions were clear and straightforward.

****************************************

Hi Jim, I checked my book and it definitely does not stay in one place actually it moves around quite a bit.

The Hand salute could have been added as an after though.

As for the diagrams vs the fist poems that's beyond what I've researched so far. I have Qi Ji Kwangs test but translating it character for character is laborious for a non native Chinese reader.

Whoops you modified your post after I posted. Yes I do have the MYDBTJ and yes that is the sequence.

Jim I know this is a lot to ask but if you ever get the time would it be possible to perform the 29 sequence as you believe them to be?

I think it would be very interesting to see how a Northern longfist practioner performs the 29 movements.

Thanks you are very helpful.

D.S

*************************************

hi mister segarra no problem. ill borrow my friends camera again.

may i ask have you tried recreating the sequence or anything from the muyedobotongji?

**************************************

Master Segarra
the 24ki people base their material on that of the Korean Sibpalki preservation society who research the MYDTJ.
I cannot say how much of a difference there may be apart from the additional 6 methods, but it should be fairly close to being an accurate representation. The Sibpalki group is not one that just puts various postures of the MYDTJ together in a form as some other groups may do, but rather research it. For instance there are errors in the MYDTJ that was recognised at the time of production but never got fixed in a subsequent publication due to the changes that occured in Korean society at the time and if a person trying to recreate these methods are not aware of these, then they will obviously make errors also.
The Sibpalki people above are the same group that I linked to in the online learning course.
I am sure they will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
If you like PM me and I'll put you in touch with them.

*************************************

Jim, yes I have. It's not ready for public release yet, but I'd like to see how it relates to what you are familiar with. So thank you for your help. I'll send you a rough draft of a book I've been working on.

Damian, yes I'd love to share with the Shipalgi folks. It's nice to see so many people interested in the MYDBTJ.

*************************************

hi mister segarra, i am busy these days school and i will try to find time some time. the techniques the muye 24ki and sippalgi people did are legit variations of common northern techniques and will resemble more the muyedobotongji than what i do.

jim

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