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Originally Posted by Mary Kirkpatrick:
I don't think that they worry enough about other forms of transportation...such as buses and trains.  I am guessing that the next thing that the terrorists hit will be one of those.  As far as the full body scans go....if people are going to be that freaked out over something that will make them safe then perhaps they shouldn't be flying.  I would rather know that I'm safe getting on the plane so if I have to go through one of those scans I will.  Remember, it started with everyone taking off their shoes...at least they don't ask us to take off our clothes!

yet. and this kind of illustrates the phrase that fear trumps freedom every time. or the benjamin franklin quote, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


in other words, we could try to enforce complete safety, but the result would land us in a total police-state. and it doesn't happen overnight, it's a gradual thing. we say, no big deal that we have to take our shoes off. no big deal that we can't bring on liquid containers. no big deal that we have to get felt up or take nudie pics. but each time, we give up more of our dignity, and none of these measures have helped to stop a terrorist attack. only dumb luck has broken up plots like the underwear bomber, or the time square bomber. so what are we left with? punishing ourselves for the illusion of safety.

and the question has to be asked. where is the line drawn? if they decided to perform body cavity searches on everyone, would you say that those who wish not to be subjected to this, should simply choose not to fly?

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Well we've already lost a lot of our "independence" and "freedoms" when the terrorists hit on 9/11 -- our country will never be the same -- nor will any other part of the world.  Honestly, I'm not sure WHERE the final line will be drawn as to what they have to do for security sake.  Do we now worry about every person who lives here...who is of middle eastern descent?  Look at people who live in the US who now start to follow middle easterners and their thoughts.  I know this is going way "off" course here....but I remember when I was a kid I was able to ride my bike (without worries of strangers) around the block and up to the local candy store and back home.  When my kids were little and wanted to ride their bikes...I wouldn't even let them off of our road....because strangers had abducted kids...and I was sure that mine were next.  We've lost a bunch of our "comfort zone" as far as freedom and  our rights go...but I do believe that it's a necessity.

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Originally Posted by Mary Kirkpatrick:
Well we've already lost a lot of our "independence" and "freedoms" when the terrorists hit on 9/11 -- our country will never be the same -- nor will any other part of the world.  Honestly, I'm not sure WHERE the final line will be drawn as to what they have to do for security sake.  Do we now worry about every person who lives here...who is of middle eastern descent?  Look at people who live in the US who now start to follow middle easterners and their thoughts.  I know this is going way "off" course here....but I remember when I was a kid I was able to ride my bike (without worries of strangers) around the block and up to the local candy store and back home.  When my kids were little and wanted to ride their bikes...I wouldn't even let them off of our road....because strangers had abducted kids...and I was sure that mine were next.  We've lost a bunch of our "comfort zone" as far as freedom and  our rights go...but I do believe that it's a necessity.

well, you're right about one thing; our country will never be the same, and in many respect the jihadis have already won, by forcing us to sacrifice certain freedoms. i also feel that our current economic situation is the fallout from the attacks 10 years ago, but that's an entirely different story. as for society as a whole, i think this is a byproduct of the "progress" which so many have been seeking. as more and more people have turned away from things like moralism, a true sense of right and wrong, and even religion (which i admit isn't a necessity for everyone), we've seen a more relativistic mindset, and the death of personal responsibility.

i mean most people will tell you we're going downhill as a society, yet relatively few will make the connection to this humanistic attitude that's taken hold. and as a result of our moral decline, guess who steps in to keep everyone straight? i'll give you three guesses, but you probably only need one

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

and the question has to be asked. where is the line drawn? if they decided to perform body cavity searches on everyone, would you say that those who wish not to be subjected to this, should simply choose not to fly?

I just wouldnt fly.

Btw...anyone notice how this topic dominated the news last year, but nothing is being said about it anymore?  Talking heads and politicians and pundits railed against it 24/7 for weeks.

Now...nothing.

Maybe it wasnt that big a deal after all.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

and the question has to be asked. where is the line drawn? if they decided to perform body cavity searches on everyone, would you say that those who wish not to be subjected to this, should simply choose not to fly?

I just wouldnt fly.

Btw...anyone notice how this topic dominated the news last year, but nothing is being said about it anymore?  Talking heads and politicians and pundits railed against it 24/7 for weeks.

Now...nothing.

Maybe it wasnt that big a deal after all.

actually, it only dominated the news for about a week, but this can be attributed to a few things. firstly, that's just the way our media works. it has the attention span of a fetus. and secondly, this is because of normalcy. again, people have just learned to accept it, as they've learned to accept all the other things foisted on us. it's easier just to go with the flow, than to cause a fuss.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
I just wouldnt fly.

but you wouldn't think that you had every right to fly without it?

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cmon, fight people! don't conform!

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The thing that sort of aggrevates me is that ...a few weeks ago, this issue was going to bring down all of society.  Big brother was imposing his will on us.  Our govt was going to collapse.

Today, the biggest concern in America is removing certain words and phrases from our vocabulary. We can no longer target anything.  [crosshairs and crossfire can no longer be used.

(I guess Target dept stores will now have to close).

What i'm saying is that , as usually the media... ALL news outlets, Fox, MSNBC, CNN etc, as well as politicians and activist groups, blow things out of proportion.

This too, shall pass.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

What i'm saying is that , as usually the media... ALL news outlets, Fox, MSNBC, CNN etc, as well as politicians and activist groups, blow things out of proportion.

i agree with this, but just because it isn't on the front page doesn't make it any less of an issue imo. by the way, did you happen to watch beck last night (the 19th)?