Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
oh nationwide, there's been thousands of arrests, with only slight mentioning in passing from the mainstream.
What are you talking about, most of the arrests are very well publicized.
Almost all of them are protest/passive resistance related. Some have been arrested for some very despicable acts, however they're a very small minority.
yeah, sources. it's called open your eyes.
Oh come on, is that the best you can do? Make some huge claims and then simply say 'open your eyes?' You made some very specific and peculiar claims, such as tents set up to facilitate **** guarded by women. I've been paying attention, and I haven't seen a single shred of evidence to support that (a little investigation shows that this claim exists almost exclusively in right wing blogs, and appears to be a horrible misrepresentation of the 'safe tents' set up at some OWS protests to address sexual assault issues and protect women, the exact opposite of your claim).
we've had ports raided and shutdown by these maniacs.
Yeah, thats how these things typically work. The politicians won't listen to them, so they stage different types of protests (in this case blocking a port) to gain leverage. The idea is that the ultra-wealthy control our political system, so actions like this are meant to send a signal to both the politicians and their corporate masters that the People still have some form of power. This was actually rather mild compared to how such protests in other countries have historically turned out. The worst crime by a member of the public I'm aware of was when a trucker tried to run over some protesters. For some reason I don't think I ever heard anything about him being arrested for attempted murder.
we've had buildings torched to the ground...
There are only two acts of arson attributed to OWS protesters, one in Portland and the other in Fort Collins, CO. The former was attempted (and failed) by a lone nut case from the Occupy Portland camp. The acts of a lone nut are hardly to be taken as representative of the entire movement. In the latter a local business owner, registered Republican, and Occupy Portland protester by the name of Ben Gilmore was arrested in connection with a fire started in an under-construction apartment complex despite an apparent lack of evidence against him (it sounds much more plausible that the fire was caused by homeless inhabiting the structure, we've had a couple fires at construction sites in Fresno from this).
...damage to property wherever these mobs amass...
Unfortunately vandalism has been a serious problem. Those responsible for graffiti, breaking out windows, and related damages should be prosecuted appropriately. I fully support police prosecuting any demonstratively guilty of these crimes. That said, there has been a very loud and persistent condemnation of these acts by most OWS activists.
...disease...
That is a very serious concern whenever you have a group of this size living in these conditions. It is to my understanding most of the larger camps have some kind of volunteer medical staff set up on site, however I'd be skeptical of if they would have the resources to handle any serious outbreak.
...so many rapes for there to be a requirement for "**** tents,"...
I debunked the "**** tents" argument above. Utter rubbish. There have been several sexual assaults reported. Unfortunately this is a serious problem whenever you have a large number of young adults this close for this long (you think this is bad, look up the **** rates in college frat houses. Very depressing). Several camps, including the OWS while it was still standing, a) took precautions to prevent future assaults (guarded 'safe areas' that only women were allowed to camp in) and b) create support for victims and encouraged them to contact the police. There are also several reports of attempted assailants being ran out of camps. Again, I support the police prosecuting anyone responsible for sexual assault to the full extent of the law.
...and violent crimes. so far something 11 murders have been involved with these "encampments,"...
Really? I heard of one murder near the Occupy Oakland camp (which was in a gang infested area), where it was reported Occupy Oakland members tried to break up a confrontation that ultimately resulted with one man running away and then turning back and opening fire. I also heard about two suicides, one of a homeless man in a camp and another of a Veteran with PTSD.
...drug paraphernalia and needles by the hundreds left behind after having been evicted.
While I'm skeptical of this being as big of a problem as some would suggest, I'm not surprised (and incredibly disappointed). While this doesn't do anything to undermine their cause, it sure as heck doesn't help...
right now there are hundreds of arrests taking place in LA. they're now trying to get rid of them in philly too.
Yes there are arrests. These protesters, many observers, and I believe that these arrests are a violation of the protesters' constitutional rights to assemble and petition their government. Unfortunately it would appear the courts are sticking to an old (mis)reading of the constitution (five bucks to the person who can show me where the US Constitution mentions anything about time, place, or manner).
you've had them attempt to invade at least two conservative conferences...
Which two? What did they do when they got in? I'm not familiar with either example. As such, I can't formulate an opinion.
...not to mention all the lose of business around these traveling woodstock circuses.
Its unfortunate that small businesses have suffered, however there is something much greater than them that is at stake here. Their losses are nothing compared to the pillaging of our government by large corporations/corrupt politicians. I also object to the constant comparison to Woodstock as they have nothing in common (except perhaps that conservatives would call the attendants of both 'hippies'
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yet all this is fine. this is what democracy looks like, right? i mean c'mon! but it's those damn evil right-wing racist redneck tea partiers you gotta look out for. they're the dangerous ones! just look at the havok they wreak!
With a few exceptions, the TP'ers have managed to refrain from violence. They've also done a good job of not damaging properties. For that I applaud them. I think its also safe to say that they believe strongly what they advocate for will strengthen their country (for all that's worth, both Gandhi and Stalin believed the same). Unfortunately the havoc they wrought has desecrated something more precious than any park or street: Congress and countless state capitals across the nation. What they have done in an attempt to maximize freedom has only made us subservient to malevolent corporations.
compared to this...
Your right, the TP'ers didn't make a mess. A note to point, keep in mind the second image was taken after the police tore up the Occupy camp (they tear apart tents and anything else in sight to prevent them from being redeployed). That said, Anacostia Flats didn't look much better after Patton's cavalry got done with it.
well i called that one from the beginning
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