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I've reached a point where I don't feel like coming in here as there are too many extreme right wing idiots who think that anyone who doesn't agree with their blinkered view of the world is a 'Liberal' and that if a person is a Muslim then they are evil.
People who conveniently forget that there are a great many 'Christians' who preach hatred just as there  are Muslims who do the same. These 'preachers' are not people of faith. If they were they would not be encouraging violence against others.

Let me spell this out for the final time - Christianity has been responsible for the deaths of many thousands of innocent people yet I don't hear of a single white American calling Christianity evil.

I know that leaving is a bit of an extreme measure and that for all the differences of opinion that some of us here have, we have some common ground as well. However when the dye is cast and an entire religion is cast as evil, no matter how far from the truth this is, I have no interest in having any kind of discussion with the person holding that view.

It's too bad because I have had some good times here and in the previous incarnations of WC but have to draw a line in the sand here and now.

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You're just mad coz of something I posted (not in here) but on my own profile.  And when you made some accusations and I challenged to back em up...you ran.

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No Dennis, I am sick and tired of your overblown opinion of yourself and your political view of the world. You will not face up to the truth. You can say that Islam is evil all you want but that is simly not true. What is true is that some Muslims have twisted the true meaning of Islam to fit their agenda. Just the same as some Christians have done, and the same as our Govt's have done.

I am going to spell this out very clearly here - I do not respect you or your opinions.  I have no wish to have any further contact with you or anyone else who shares your extremely narrow minded, twisted view of the world. You are intelligent but inseated of using that intelligence to see the truth you use it to try and prove your point of view at the exclusion of all else. What I am saying Dennis is that you are the kind of person that gives American's a bad name throughout the rest of the world.

Goodbye WC and good luck to the open minded people in here, particularly Av

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Lol!  man that just cracks me up.

Ok, since he has that view and is gone now, I'll tellya what really happened.

I posted a video of a pastor on my own profile.  Not here.  The video was to be shared by myself and a few close friends.  A couple of my closest friends commented on the video...people I grew up with, people I have worked with.  This was who I intended to share this video with.  the main conversation was between myself and a woman I went to high school with.  that person dated my best friend for a long time.  I know her extremely well...far better than I know any of you.  And THAT was who I was having a conversation with.

David (who has now changed his named here and taken me off his friend's list), stuck his nose where it didnt belong.  He horned into a conversation where he wasnt wanted and began leveling accusations there...just like he does here.  

Anyway, the conversation was between myself and a woman named Kathryn.  David jumped in, leveled some accusations about the pastor in that video and couldnt back them up. He said the pastor was wanting Christians to become violent.  I asked him twice to show me where he said this.

David ran away.  Came her and posted his tear-jerker diatribe about how cruel and heartless and evil I am and how terrible Christianity is.  He doesnt like my pov but, unlike Sarah and some of my other liberal or moderate friends, he cant separate his political view from his personal life.  My other friends here understand that just because we dont see eye to eye politically, we can still be friends.  David is too immature to grasp that I guess.

For the record (and this isnt the 1st time I've said this here), I have not said anything here or on my own profile that I havent said in the old WC site at Myspace.  My views of Islam should be nothing new to you guys.  I said how I felt about Islam over on the Myspace site a year or so ago.  andI have said it here.  And David apparently felt I was good enough to be on his friend's list back then and up until yesterday.

Something else David has said more than once.  He's made reference to our govt in a critical light a number of times.  but he has done so without clarifying which govt that is.  David claims to be from Scotland.  But unless you know this, you'd think he was talking about the American govt.

So that's fine.  He doesnt respect me.  I knew that.  He also doesnt respect my faith and tried to leave the impression that there are as many Christian terrorists as Islamic.  But David...come on back when you find your big-boy britches and decide to be a man for once in your life.

Maybe this is for the best.  I personally find it hilarious.   As Bugs Bunny would say...What a moroon!  

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Zoinks!  I haven't been here in some time.  What a revoltin' development!  I must say, I totally understand where David is coming from.  Sometimes, one has to live by their convictions, especially is one is very spiritual.  It is more than a "debate" for some.  It's a way of life. In the bible it's says not to cast your pearls before swine.  (and I'm not calling you a swine, Dennis!) I have cut people out of my life, not because I was trying to be an ****, but because having them in it was counter productive for me.  A waste of time, so to speak.  So I understand that he might be offended by some of the right wing attitudes here.  My beliefs & attitudes are totally in step with his, but I live in this country, and since it's too late for me to leave it (and I guess it would be chickenshit to do so) I am going to continue to fight for what I think is the real America, the very best of what we should stand for.  This is such a big country and we are such a diverse lot. I get what David is saying about any religion can be radical.  I used to be a Christian, and though many of my beliefs and morals come from the teachings of Jesus, I no longer care to identify myself with organized Christianity. I think Jesus would be appalled at how some people are representing what he stood for. I think the world would be better if everyone learned "tolerance".  Before we point out the "speck" in our brothers' eyes, shouldn't be first remove the log from our own?

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Personally I cant see how one can say this is a right-wing intolerant forum though since I'm pretty much the only conservative here.  And I'm just 1 guy.  So basically one would have to be a moron to see that you are trying NOT to say, you hate my views and wish I'd leave.  How tolerant.    At least David was honest about his hatred of my faith and my politics.

Truth is, Dod asked me to keep posting and invite people if I could.  But you guys won't post here anymore.  And you haven't for a long time.  Dod was pretty much the only one of us to open up topics and he's quit.  I posted to try to help move the conversations along, but it was rare that we had more than maybe 2 or 3 people who would participate.  Even Dod mentioned this to me and wondered how we could have a couple of thousand members and only 2 people posting.   Instead, most remained silent (death to any forum) and the one person who would respond, got mad, attacked me in a private thread elsewhere, then took his toys and went home.  So I stopped posting for awhile.  I wanted people to see what would happen if I did.  And now we see.  

So you guys can say you dont like the right-wing political views of this forum.  But I know what you really mean.  Fact is, this forum is dead.  And it's not dead because of me.  And its not dead because its become a right wing group.  Its dead because most  would rather sit back and read the posts than participate in the discussions.  Almost no one would post topics.  Or if they did, it was only a couple of topics.  

I'm just 1 guy.  This forum is not and never was a right wing group.  This forum is a casualty to apathy.  The members here are just lazy.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Personally I cant see how one can say this is a right-wing intolerant forum though since I'm pretty much the only conservative here.  And I'm just 1 guy.  So basically one would have to be a moron to see that you are trying NOT to say, you hate my views and wish I'd leave.  How tolerant.    At least David was honest about his hatred of my faith and my politics.

Dennis, I hope this wasn't intended for me!  I don't hate your views. I don't agree with them. I certainly don't wish you'd leave!  I was talking about people in my personal life that I have quit associating with.

Truth is, I have been busy in the real world, and I only have so much energy per day, so I have to prioritise.  Also true.  I like the groups better when they were on myspace.  I have trouble navigating my way around this place.

One of the things I have been trying to do in real life is get involved with the anti-war movement to the extent that I can.  I think we have been killing people in the middle east and having our fine men & women killed long enough now.  It's time to stop.

I am trying to go to the weekly Veterans for Peace vigil that is held downtown on Tues eves.  They have been going on since we first got involved in Afghanistan.  On April 9th I went to a wonderful progam called "Speaking Truth To Power: The never ending wars.  There were 4 Iraq/Afghanistan vets speaking, Ray McGovern, who was with the CIA for 27 yrs (71 yrs old) also spoke as well as several others. There were also photos & the whole program was accompanied with stringed instruments.  It was a moving & wonderful program.  

I have also been involved in some women's rights issues, along with some college students from the area.  

My heart of hearts tells me that time for talking is done, it's time to be more active.  Maybe it has something to do with having cancer, but I feel that whatever time I have left on earth, I am going to do all I can for peace and to fight for the soul of this wonderful country, which I believe has been bought and sold by people like the Koch Brothers.  

I will come here when I can and post when I am able, but please don't think I dislike you for your thoughts or beliefs, Dennis.  The best thing about this country is that we can have differing opinions.  Peace...

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I'm ready to get out of the war too.   Its why I havent jumped wholeheartedly at the chance to comment on the libyan situation.  

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That so called "man of God" who burned the Koran did so with the knowledge his actions would be met with much anger.  How many people died because of his stupidity?  Fueling an already raging fire (metaphorically), leading his flock astray, what a chode.  I like what Ghandi said,"I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians, they act nothing like their Christ."  Organized religion is in place to control the masses.  A select few believers truly get it.  
Dennis, you seem to enjoy the conflict.  We can sit and pick each other apart or we can find some kind of common ground.  If you aren't interested in some form of acceptance of issues discussed why would anyone (such as me or David) choose to be part of a conversation with you?
Our problem in America with Americans is that they believe there is some boogieman out there trying to get us.  Sure, after all we have done, our enemies have grown in spades.  The type of thinking that we will change others' fundamental beliefs is ridiculous and the only way to co exist is to find a way to RESPECT others religious, sexual and physical freedom.  But, I think, dealing with the conversations i have had on WC even when it was on Myspace, I don't think I belong here either.  Because my words are wasted on deaf ears.  And, when I spoke ill of all these  wars in the past, I was accused of being unpatriotic and  an angry liberal.  I am an ANGRY AMERICAN!!  I am patriotic because I would rather see our country flourish rather than be drained of all capital. By the way, it is the industrial war complex that seems to be the actual enemy.

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Originally Posted by Lelania Bailey:

Our problem in America with Americans is that they believe there is some boogieman out there trying to get us.  

It's not so much the "boogieman" as the whole "good guy vs bad guy" syndrome. Thanks in a big part to Hollywood, there is a perception that there always has to be a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in pretty much any story. The US has always (naturally I guess) seen itself as "the good guy", but to be the good guy there always has to be a bad guy to be able to compare yourself against - if there isn't a bad guy to square up against, how will people know you're the good guy? In WWII the bad guys were the Nazis and the Japs, in the Cold War it was the Commies, after 1991 it sort of flipped around a bit for a decade (Saddam, Noriega, the Serbs etc) until 9/11, then after that it was Al Quaeda, which gradually expanded to muslims/arabs in general. Eventually that sort of thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you think that some group X hate you and are The Enemy, then anything you do to them is justified as "they'd do it to you if they had the chance", so they then start hating you if they didn't in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Lelania Bailey:

Dennis, you seem to enjoy the conflict.  We can sit and pick each other apart or we can find some kind of common ground.  If you aren't interested in some form of acceptance of issues discussed why would anyone (such as me or David) choose to be part of a conversation with you?

Tellya what.  Instead of just throwing bombs, how about giving me an example of how I love conflict.  And while you're at it, lets see if you can tell humor from serious posts.  Do you know the difference between a serious post and just stirring the pot to get someone....ANYONE of you lurkers to get off your duff and get involved before this place dies?????  David failed miserably.

You have posted a total of 13 times in here as of this posting.  You have never, ever opened any topics of discussion.  And you have dragged this old thread back up and thrown gas on a slowly dying fire.

Happy?

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Dennis~Really?  You ignored everything I addressed and only focused on what I said about you.  I did not say you LOVE conflict.  Seeming to enjoy it is far from loving it.  I am not use to this forum thing.  Really miss the groups on myspace.  So **** what if I haven't posted a topic?  Do I get an F now?  Are you grading my participation?  Does it matter that I've four small children that keep me from sitting on my "duff" and posting here?  Even if the time were there, it would still be a rare occasion to stop by.  It 's nothing personal, I just don't like you.

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Well, I guess I could be accused of dredging up old news, too.  I DON'T know my way around this "forum" that well.  I MISS THE HELL out of myspace groups.  AND..... It IS hard to tell the tone of posts, mainly because we don't get to hear it, like we do when someone is speaking.  I guess that's why emoticons were invented.... To give readers an idea whether someone is being serious, sarcastic, fooling around or what!

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Originally Posted by Lelania Bailey:
Dennis~Really?  You ignored everything I addressed and only focused on what I said about you.  I did not say you LOVE conflict.  Seeming to enjoy it is far from loving it.  I am not use to this forum thing.  Really miss the groups on myspace.  So **** what if I haven't posted a topic?  Do I get an F now?  Are you grading my participation?  Does it matter that I've four small children that keep me from sitting on my "duff" and posting here?  Even if the time were there, it would still be a rare occasion to stop by.  It 's nothing personal, I just don't like you.

Yeah you get an F.  And yeah, i did ignore the rest of your post...just like you ignored mine and began accusing me of ENJOYING....conflict.  And yes...I knew you didnt like me already.  I wont lose sleep over it.  So if I bother you sooooo much....put me on ignore.  That'll solve your problem.

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Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
Well, I guess I could be accused of dredging up old news, too.  I DON'T know my way around this "forum" that well.  I MISS THE HELL out of myspace groups.  AND..... It IS hard to tell the tone of posts, mainly because we don't get to hear it, like we do when someone is speaking.  I guess that's why emoticons were invented.... To give readers an idea whether someone is being serious, sarcastic, fooling around or what!

Eh...Sarah, we had bomb throwers and trolls like this on the old WC myspace group too. I was attacked and labeled over there and now its here.  Nothing is different EXCEPT...participation.  So now a couple are fussing at me, but at least they are posting...bringing a tiny bit of life back.  Now if we can get em to put their hatred aside and focus on regular topics...we'll be in good shape.