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i know we've discussed this before, but it just depresses me as we get into the season formally known as christmas, that my holiday (and the vast majority of america's holiday) is targeted every year. for all the people we're trying not to offend, nobody cares that it's offensive to christians that their religious holiday is being swept under the rug, in favor of this homogenized, christless "holiday season."

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Ah, Christmas, you mean the celebration of the midwinter solstice that the early Christians co-opted and took over? :-P

Well, to be fair, no-one really cares about offending Christians all that much any more do they, they're the "soft target".  I agree with you on the fact that the "Christ" in "Christmas" has been pretty much replaced by an "X" - over here the commercialism started in around mid-september when the xmas stuff started appearing in the shops, and it's full-on crazy season here by now.  

I think the whole "war on Christmas" thing is a tad overblown though, there are a few incidents that get taken up by the chatterati and the blogs and the professional axe-grinders every year. Is the same as most things, you never really hear about the people that celebrate Christmas the normal way, you hear about the exceptions.

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i know, and i know it sounds whiny, it's just that i forget about how there is a concerted effort (and one does exist, let's face it) against christmas most of the year, and then when the whole war starts to flair up again around christmas, it always kind of catches me off guard at first. it's like, "oh yeah, it's taboo to celebrate christmas." and by now, it almost feels like you're expected not to go out of your way to mention christmas, or be "religiously exclusive," etc. do you buy the sign that says merry christmas, which makes a statement nowadays, or do you decide to go with the culturally inclusive "happy holidays," which also makes a statement. i mean, it IS okay for people to have traditions right? do we really need to start removing or replacing words which have a traditional implication? is this what tolerance means? i thought tolerance meant that people could do their own thing, without having the name of their holidays altered, in order to fit some secularist mold.

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Baby Jesus ousted from St. George Ferry Terminal:  http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2010/12/baby_jesus_ousted_from_st_geor.html

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Baby Jesus ousted from St. George Ferry Terminal:  http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2010/12/baby_jesus_ousted_from_st_geor.html

First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution :
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Teach them to scorn injustice, ingratitude, cowardice and falsehood.
Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty.--John Adams, 1776

George Washington believed God saved the Revolution and as President, he issued the fisrt proclamation of a national thanksgiving on Oct 3rd, 1789 in order to "acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits. and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

Ben Franklin did not attend church much, but recommended prayer breaks during the Constitutional Convention.

Twisting the words of the First Amendment - as the modern Supreme Court has done--to eliminate ALL public displays of religion would have been regarded as preposterous two hundreds years ago.

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I just dont agree with the consumerizm of the insano shoppers during this season.

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Related to this talk, I found this the other night that my sister shared:   http://www.npr.org/2010/12/11/131988679/War-On-Christmas-Spreads-To-Lincoln-Tunnel?ps=cprs

I have found it interesting since I have gone against the mainstream Christian views that more and more I am finding this time of year a pain in my side.  This year more than others I am pissy and groaning more than ever because of insignificant things, such as not having the $$ to get the one special present for my son that we were hoping to get him.  Not the volume or anything like that, but he is really into astronomy and we were finally going to break down and drop a decent amount for him on a telescope from Orion.  Ever since that realization has occurred I have been even more of a Grinch than usual.  I think we all need to take time to enjoy family at all times of the year and not just the special holiday times.  Maybe the pressure is too much, maybe its because I can't find good ways to express my spirituality with my Catholic/Christian family since I am not Christian and fear expulsion from my tight night group.

I think we just put too much stock in the consumerism that is with the holiday and as much as I try to avoid that I have fallen victim, unexpectedly, this year.

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Originally Posted by Beth Marik:
I just dont agree with the consumerizm of the insano shoppers during this season.

exactly, and this mass hysteria of shopping, is precisely what the anti-christian secularists want the meaning of christmas, or, "the holiday season," to be. they want to completely remove all aspects of christ and christianity from the equation. i mean if you look at the success they've had, just in the last 20 years, you can literally see how the public has been subjected to a huge propaganda campaign, WITH great results! and only met with passive acceptance, because, after all, who wants to be exclusive, or offensive? no one does. so again, in the name of "fairness," and following some insane interpretation of what the constitution actually says regarding religion, the majority is coerced into abandoning their traditions. we are all being made to fit the same mold. easier to control that way.

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I don't entirely agree with that Dod. Unless you are referring to the companies who rake in millions of $/£ every year.  I do agree that people have lost the meaning of what Christmas is supposed to be. Though that was lost a long time ago.

The vast majority of Christians are no more Christian than I am so even if the commercialism hadn't happened to the extent it has not a lot of people would care about Christmas time. After all when was the last time you saw someone give something up for lent?

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well, i don't have a problem with people celebrating a secularist christmas. if that's their prerogative, so be it. but it's just seeing how even the name christmas is now being phased out, in favor the generic "holiday season." have a happy generic winter celebration!

and i know the origins of christmas, and its long evolution. i know that a great deal of what we celebrate today, is based off of mithraism, as a result of the early romanization of christianity. however, i think for many centuries now, what christmas has stood for (charity, kindness, etc) has been very important to our society.

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I'm not going to argue you point Dod because to you Christmas obviously retains it's true meaning. (As much as that is possible anyway )


I think that the early Christians, who made up the Christmas Day coincidence were the first people to lose the purity of Christ's birthday and what we have now is an avalanche that started as a snowball 2000 years ago. Also I feel that most 'Christians' aren't. At best they are Sunday Christians - they go to their Church once a week and feel pious then for the remainder of their lives they behave in a distinctly un-Christian manner.

So unless Christians as a whole get back to the root of their religion the true meaning of Christmas and the religion as a whole is lost.

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Originally Posted by Laura Vondenhuevel:
Related to this talk, I found this the other night that my sister shared:   http://www.npr.org/2010/12/11/131988679/War-On-Christmas-Spreads-To-Lincoln-Tunnel?ps=cprs
Not the volume or anything like that, but he is really into astronomy and we were finally going to break down and drop a decent amount for him on a telescope from Orion.

I've asked Santa for one ever since I was a small boy.  Maybe this year.  

Originally Posted by Laura Vondenhuevel:
Ever since that realization has occurred I have been even more of a Grinch than usual.  I think we all need to take time to enjoy family at all times of the year and not just the special holiday times.  Maybe the pressure is too much, maybe its because I can't find good ways to express my spirituality with my Catholic/Christian family since I am not Christian and fear expulsion from my tight night group.

Odd since that is a very Christian value you are describing.  

Originally Posted by Laura Vondenhuevel:
I think we just put too much stock in the consumerism that is with the holiday and as much as I try to avoid that I have fallen victim, unexpectedly, this year.

I know the feeling.  

Merry Christmas.  

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Originally Posted by David Macleod:

The vast majority of Christians are no more Christian than I am so even if the commercialism hadn't happened to the extent it has not a lot of people would care about Christmas time. After all when was the last time you saw someone give something up for lent?

Christians in name-only then?  Yes, I think you are right about that.  But what makes one Christian?  Going to the 'right' Church?  Observing certain rituals?  Wearing a cross?  

Ahh...there's the rub.  

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Shouldn't holidays be celebrated by all no matter their faith? Does Christmas have to be celebrated by only Christians? Maybe our holidays are their to make us stop and think how grateful we should be for all things, together. So if you are Christian, then Merry Christmas, and if you are not Christian, then have a Happy Holiday Season. For me, well, I must love whatever it brings.