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The following posts are a combination of newer material and posts from the old board concerning the 13 influences (Ship Sam Seh). It is strongly recommended you  read the ebook written by me about the Ship Sam Seh as it has much material covering this subject.

Free Ship Sam Seh E-Book

Enjoy!

D.Segarra

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With reference to the thirteen influences.

I understand the first eight (pal kye) are the 4 main directions plus 4 diagonals. The 5 (o-Heng) movements are :

1> Jin (advance)
2> Toe (retreat)
3> Ko
4>Ban
5>Jung

Would someone kindly inform me of the translation for the latter three. Also does anyone know the 5 mental characteristics ?

Many thanks,

Master David Allerton

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Oh Heng
Fire 火Jin  Advance
Water 水Toh Yield Move back
Wood/Wind 木Koh Move Left Turn Left
Metal 金 Ban Move Right turn Right
Earth 土 Jung Stay Centered

Five words
沾 Chum -Listen Hands "Listen/Fortell Hands"  
連 Yeon Connect/Join "Chariots in Line"  
粘 JumAdhere/Stick "Adhere-Hands"  
隨 Soo Follow/Lead redirect "Follow/lead hands"
不丟頂 Bool Joo Hang   Don’t Oppose Force  

Pal Gwe
Pong   ｵ朋   To repel or bounce a force away with the intent to open, off-balance or create distance
Ree   ｵ履    To Rotate/Pull or Lead with the intent to redirect, off-balance, open or create distance
Jeh   擠   To Squeeze or Press with the hands with the intent to seize, off-balance, open or create distance
Ahn   按   To Push or Strike with the hands with the intent to hold, off-balance, strike or create distance
Chae   採   To Pluck, seize, take or gather with the hands with the intent to trap, seize, pull down or off-balance
Yul   ｵ列     To split, divide or spread using the hands as opposing forces with the intent to lock, open or unbalance.
Joo   肘   To use the elbow or knee with the intent to redirect (defense) or attack .
Ko   靠   To Bump with the shoulder, hip or body with the intent to create distance or off-balance

From the Oh Heng
定 Decisive/Chung  
信 Faith/Shin
愛 Love/Aey
孝 Loyalty/Hyo
直 Honest/Jip

中庸 Middle Way/Joong Yong  
別 Distinction/Pyol  
判 Judgement/Pahn  
反 Reflection/Bahn  
刺 Stimulation/Ja

From the Pal Gwe
行 Form/Hyung  
勢 Posture/Seh  
心 Heart/Shim  
徳 Virture/Duk

氣 Energy/Ki  
均 Level/Gyunn  
陽 Positive/Yang  
陰 Negative/Um

功 Achievement/Gong  
主 Prinicple/Ju  
正 Righteous/Jeong  
本 Main/Bon

虛 Empty/Hoe  
實 Full/Shil  
動 Movement/Dong  
靜 Stillness/Jung

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Master Segarra,

Thankyou for your time and effort

Much appreciated.

D.Allerton

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These clearly parallel the 13 Postures of Tai Chi (8 Energies and 5 Attitudes). Is there also an equivalent of the 6 Harmonies or the Silk Reeling exercises in Tang Soo Do?
-Li

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Hello

I have been set a task from my instructor to research into the interpretations of the song of the sip sam seh. I am finding it rather difficult to find the relevent information upon the internet and was wondering if someone would care to give their own opinion to the general meanings of the song.

the song of the sip sam seh

Never neglect any of the Sip Sam Seh.
The source of the will is in the waist.

Pay attention to the slightest change from full to empty.
Let energy flow through the whole body continuously.

Stillness embodies motion, motion stillness.
Seek stillness in motion.

Surprising things will happen when you meet your opponent.
Give awareness and purpose to every movement.
When done correctly all will appear effortless.

At all times pay attention to the waist.
Relaxed clear awareness of abdomen, the energy can be activated.

When the base of the spine is erect, energy rises to the top of the head.

The body should be flexible.

Hold the head as if suspended from a string.

Keep alert and seek the meaning and purpose of your art.

Bent and stretched, open and closed, let nature take its course.

Beginners are guided by oral teaching.
Gradually one applies himself more and more.
Skill will take care of itself.

What is the main principle of the martial arts?
The mind is the primary actor and the body the secondary one.

What is the purpose and philosophy behind the martial arts?
Rejuvenation and prolonging of life beyond the normal span.
So and eternal spring.

Every word of this song has enormous value and importance.
Failing to follow this song attentively, you will sigh away your time

Many thanks  

Chrisse

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Never neglect any of the Sip Sam Seh.
The source of the will is in the waist.

Technique is powered by movement in your waist.

Pay attention to the slightest change from full to empty.
Let energy flow through the whole body continuously.

Full to empty refers to the way to put power into a muscle group.  The whole body should feel as if energy flows through it constantly and can be concentrated to any area any time at will.

Stillness embodies motion, motion stillness.
Seek stillness in motion.

This is a typical Taoist way of speaking.  It is hard to explain in words.  Think of this....in music...it isn't just the notes that make a piece of music....the spaces (beats) between the notes are just as much a part of the continuity of the music as the notes you select.

Surprising things will happen when you meet your opponent.
Give awareness and purpose to every movement.
When done correctly all will appear effortless.

Fighting a person is not the same as practice.  People do unpredictable things and you have to be ready for that.   Watch the way he moves as well as being aware of the way you move.  Once you have your timing down, you'll be able to perceive his attacks early and respond to them with ease.

At all times pay attention to the waist.
Relaxed clear awareness of abdomen, the energy can be activated.

Again...we are back to the waist.  Waist/hip rotation is how power is generated.  To do this well...you have to learn how to stay relaxed.  Snapping the hips will generate power.

When the base of the spine is erect, energy rises to the top of the head.

Pull your tail bone in under you (Don't stand with your big butt sticking out...you'd be bowing your back if you do).  Lining up the spine increases your vertical stability.  Power really begins in your feet.  You have to stand well to generate and transmit kenetic energy up your legs to your waist.  From there you direct the power up the spine all the way to your head.  (hopefully...you head won't explode.   That'a a joke).

The body should be flexible.

Is ya stretched out?  Good athletes know that a strong body is a supple body.  Flexibility is just as important as big strong muscles.

Hold the head as if suspended from a string.

This is an old way of telling you to stand erect with your tail bone tucked.  The idea being if a string was coming out of the top of your head, your body would be balanced like a set of hanging scales.

Keep alert and seek the meaning and purpose of your art.

Don't be a brain dead drone.  Do your own research and come to your own decisions.  Take some responsibility for your life...and that includes your practice.   Take time to learn about the art you practice....not just the physical techniques you are being taught.  Every art has a history...and often a set of philosophical tenents or codes of conduct.

Bent and stretched, open and closed, let nature take its course.

Don't fight mother nature (she can be a b*tch.  LOL).  This is a reference to the Taoist view of the univers (Yin-yang...or as they say in Koran martial arts...Um - Yang).  The universe is balanced in cooperative elements...high/low....in/out....left/right....male/female.....bent/stretched....open/closed...etc.   Your technique should always be balanced as well.  Example...when you punch with your right hand, you should retract or pull back with the muscles on your left side to balance the motion...say...like...pulling back with your left hand at the same time.


Beginners are guided by oral teaching.
Gradually one applies himself more and more.
Skill will take care of itself.

Oh!  This is an easy one.  Shut up and listen.  Practice, practice, practice.

What is the main principle of the martial arts?
The mind is the primary actor and the body the secondary one.

You (your concious being) is in charge....not your body.  Mind over matter...and all that.

What is the purpose and philosophy behind the martial arts?
Rejuvenation and prolonging of life beyond the normal span.
So and eternal spring.

Over time, martial arts became a health practice and not just skills used by soldeirs on the battlefield to kill the enemy.  In times of peace, these experts kept up their practice and through that self-disciplined life found that the practice kept them strong and healthy, which in turn prolonged their lives and gave them a greater quaility of life as well.  The 'eternal spring' is an Asian reference to a 'fountain of youth'.   Again, Taoist thinking....the 'fountain of youth' is within your own body...and through practice of martial arts you are able to 'drink' from it to keep yourself young.

Every word of this song has enormous value and importance.
Failing to follow this song attentively, you will sigh away your time

The author is saying 'pay attention and don't waste my time. If you don't follow my advice you will waste your life and miss all your opportunities.  "Sighing away your time" has a dual meaning of 'not wasting your time in life' and 'NO WHINNING'.

And lastly,

If you had researched 'Tai Chi Chuan' (the 'Song of Ship Sam Soi is orginally from Tai Chi) and "Chang Sang Feng', as well as 'Taoism' and "The Song of 13 Influences" you would come up with a dearth (see...that's a neat word to use in a sentence) of information.  Over time you too would be able to espouse a plethora of interesting facts, a venerable cornicopia coloquial wisdom.....just like me! LOL!!

Lots of luck with your studies.

The Emperor
(John Hancock)

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Thank you so much midnight503 (J. Hancock), this is just what i needed to get me started! It all makes so much sense now!

from Chrissie

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Nice explanations SBN Hancock. I was unaware of the strong links to Tai Chi.

Quote from: midnight503 on November 21, 2006, 06:31:45 AM
Hold the head as if suspended from a string.

This is an old way of telling you to stand erect with your tail bone tucked.  The idea being if a string was coming out of the top of your head, your body would be balanced like a set of hanging scales.

Just for discussions sake, regarding the above passage, I have always interpreted that particular passage as being about centered movement. I frequently point out this passage when I'm trying to teach students to keep their tan jun at a consistent level, for example, trying to eliminate the up-down motions when they practice hyung.
-Jim Savidge

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I've often referred to this line when correcting posture, slouching, head down, etc when working with less confident students.  Sometimes I pull them up by their hair to give them a literal feeling.
-Wu De

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Here's a really nice translation taken from this website: http://www.scheele.org/lee/classics.html



SONG OF THE THIRTEEN POSTURES
by Unknown Author
as researched by Lee N. Scheele

The Thirteen Postures should not be taken lightly;
the source of the postures is in the waist.

Be mindful of the interchange between insubstantial and substantial;
The ch'i circulates throughout the body without hindrance.

Be still,
when attacked by the opponent,
be tranquil and move in stillness;
changes caused by my opponent fill him with wonder.

Study the function of each posture carefully and with deliberation;
to achieve the goal is very easy.

Pay attention to the waist at all times;
completely relax the abdomen
and the ch'i rises up.

When the tailbone is centered and straight,
the shen [spirit of vitality] goes through to the headtop.

To make the whole body light and agile
suspend the headtop.

Carefully study.

Extension and contraction, opening and closing, should be natural.

To enter the door and be shown the way,
you must be orally taught.
Practice should be uninterrupted,
and technique achieved by self study.

Speaking of the body and its function, what is the standard?

The I [mind-intent] and ch'i are king,
and the bones and muscles are the court.

Think over carefully what the final purpose is:
to lengthen life and maintain youth.

The Song consists of 140 characters;
each character is true and the meaning is complete.

If you do not study in this manner,
then you will waste your time and sigh with regret.
-Li

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During class last night one of my students asked about the history of the Sip Sam Seh and it's origins as I pointed out that it was not something developed by KJN Hwang Kee, but was something he had used as a guide.  I explained that it was heavily influenced by / came from Taoism and Tai Chi Chuan, but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Can anyone point me towards a good recouce on the subject?  or give some insight into the song's history (dates, etc) and so far everything I've seen says it's author is unknown?

Any info would be great.

Thanks

KimW

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The Song of the Thirteen Postures (Sip Sam Seh) is one of the Tai Chi Classics and can't be dated prior to the 19th century according to this source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi_classics
and has no known author according to this source:
http://www.scheele.org/lee/classics.html

The Thirteen Postures referred to are the Eight Energies and Five Attitudes as already discussed, but I'm not aware of any particularly useful information on the internet regarding these. Probably the best written information on the subject that I've seen would be in B.K. Frantzis' book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Internal-Martial-Arts-Chi/dp/1583941908/ref=sr_1_6/026-4921119-5694028?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188913612&sr=8-6
He has over 10 pages giving detail on these (along with loads of other good stuff in this book!). Having said that it is well worth finding a tai chi practitioner who can deliver these, especially one with martial arts understanding, to experience them for yourself. It's a remarkable experience! Unfortunately such practitioners are few and far between.

I was wondering if anyone has spent time trying to apply the Eight Energies or Five Attitudes to their Tang Soo Do forms. How does it change the way for example Chil Sung Il Ro is delivered?
-Li

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Li have you read?;
http://www.warrior-scholar.com/pdfs/Shipsamseh2010.pdf

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Thank you for sharing that Master Segarra. I can see a great deal of research must have gone into producing it. If I understand correctly, the key points in applying the Sip Sam Seh to the form are flowing between "gentle and strong forces" and well coordinated movement, transmitting in sequence through the body from the initial intent. (Incidentally I was wondering why when the major joints of the body are being considered for the transmission of force the shoulders are left out?). Lots of new material and translations in there I've never seen before. Thank you so much.

What I am curious about is although the Song of the Sip Sam Seh is a useful reference for posture and movement, what purpose do the Sip Sam Seh themselves have. Are they labels for things that we just do in eg Chil Sung Il Ro anyway? Or can the understanding of them enhance our performance?