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roman parallels
01/08/2011 1:13 pm

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i'm often fascinated by the parallels between the history of rome, and america. here are but a few.

the roman republic began with the overthrow of the roman monarchy.

rome became something of a melting pot. there was a very distinctive roman culture and influence, yet they borrowed much from those incorporated into the empire.

the republic relied on a constitution, and had three branches of government (as our system was modeled on theirs).

this is from wikipedia. tell me how similar it sounds to our current state.

By the middle of the second century BC, the economic situation for the average Plebeian had declined significantly. The long military campaigns had forced citizens to leave their farms to fight, only to return to farms that had fallen into disrepair.

The landed aristocracy began buying bankrupted farms at discounted prices, creating a situation that made it impossible for the average farmer to operate his farm at a profit.

Masses of unemployed Plebeians soon began to flood into Rome, and thus into the ranks of the legislative assemblies, where their economic status usually led them to vote for the candidate who offered the most for them. A new culture of dependency was emerging, which would look to any populist leader for relief.

In 133 BC, Tiberius Gracchus was elected Plebeian Tribune, and attempted to enact a law to distribute land to Rome's landless citizens.


almost eerie, eh?

for the most part, rome was very tolerant of differing religions, so long as they didn't cause trouble.

as with america, in rome, only the wealthy were elected to high office. it takes millions of dollars today, to run a successful campaign.

romans viewed themselves as exceptional, and were strongly patriotic.

as rome expanded, so did its bureaucracy.

roman taxes gradually increased over time, to make up for squandered and wasted money. the senators turned corrupt, and were bought out (like lobbying today).

rome had a welfare system, which kind of got out of hand, costing the empire significant amounts of money.

rome began to increasingly rely on mercenaries.

rome began to privatize public services.



anyway, i think that's enough for now. thoughts?

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01/11/2011 3:35 pm

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You forgot about thier tolerance to immigrants(Vandals,Gauls,and Goths).
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01/11/2011 4:00 pm

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so are we going to burn while someone plays the fiddle?
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01/11/2011 5:02 pm

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Dod, this is a good topic!  I've seen some similarities between Rome and the USA as well.  Mostly I look at their old Republic and see that we have a Republic too.  But mostly what I look at is how Rome was the world's superpower and how we are today. Rome and Carthage were powerful adversaries.  The USA and the USSR were powerful adversaries.  Carthage was replaced I guess by Gaul.  The Soviet Union was replaced I guess by Iran, and other smaller, but dangerous states.

Differences are there too.  Rome embraced slavery.  We abolished it.  Rome fed people to the lions for sport.  We abolished the chain-gangs.  Rome invaded and conquered other nations.  We wind up overthrowing nations and then giving them back to their people.  (Nation-building).  Rome's system of laws were there to protect Roman citizens.  Our system of laws protect non-citizens and illegal immigrants.
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01/12/2011 5:18 am

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Originally Posted by Laura Vondenhuevel:
so are we going to burn while someone plays the fiddle?



nah, today it would be guitar hero.
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01/12/2011 3:21 pm

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My first thought on this was the old Monty Python sketch:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Is actually sort of apt, how many times have you seen anti-american protests full of guys wearing jeans, talking on cellphones, hanging out the window of cars and venting their rage on TV or on the internet?    
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01/12/2011 3:47 pm

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lol, fitting
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01/12/2011 5:38 pm

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

Originally Posted by Laura Vondenhuevel:
so are we going to burn while someone plays the fiddle?



nah, today it would be guitar hero.



And not one of those paper guitars you can buy in the store that cost more than $10?  damn I'm disappointed!
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01/13/2011 1:35 pm

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Great movie clip Kieran. However I should point out a couple of things - cars, tv and the internet are not American inventions. Jeans are sort of in as much as Levi Strauss; a German and Jacob Davis; a Latvian. Oh and the word denim comes from France.  The cell phone was invented by Martin Cooper - a first generation American. His parents were Ukrainian.

Dennis, it's a bit rich saying that the USA overthrow nations and then give them back to the people. You have a long history of covertly overthrowing Govt's whose policies clash with American interests or who you just don't like. Don't take it to heart though as we've been there and done that long before you guys started doing it!

Dod, it is very interesting seeing history repeat itself and you have done a bang up job of drawing comparisons between the Roman Empire and where the US is now.  Hopefully the fall of the American Empire will be less catastrophic than the fall of the Roman one.
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01/14/2011 9:19 am

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Originally Posted by David Macleod:


Dennis, it's a bit rich saying that the USA overthrow nations and then give them back to the people. You have a long history of covertly overthrowing Govt's whose policies clash with American interests or who you just don't like. Don't take it to heart though as we've been there and done that long before you guys started doing it!

Thats what I meant.  I never said we dont overthrow govts.  But we give the land back.  We gave S. Korea back. We gave Japan back.  We gave Germany back.  We gave France back.  We gave Italy back.  Hell, once we conquered part of China and gave it back.  Did you forget that? Truth is, the only nation we really robbed was Mexico.  (Indians dont count).  

Take Iraq for instance.  Rome would have moved it's legions in, made everyone Roman citizens and enslaved the rest.

We moved in, and then let Iraqis vote for their own govt.  (And to think we let em keep those vast oil fields...sheesh!  Don't they know this was a war about oil?).  
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01/16/2011 4:20 am

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Silly me. There I was believing what I was taught at school about WW2 and all the time it was a purely American effort to liberate France, Italy, Belgium, the Nordic Countries. I also thought that there other Countries involved in the taking of (Germany) Berlin. Now I realise that the Russians weren't the first into Berlin after all as they obviously had no role in the war formerly known as The Second World War.

I must also have been wrong about South Korea. There I was thinking that the British were there too. Too bad that it's going to cost a fortune to rewrite all those history books.....
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01/16/2011 7:15 am

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Originally Posted by David Macleod:
Silly me. There I was believing what I was taught at school about WW2 and all the time it was a purely American effort to liberate France, Italy, Belgium, the Nordic Countries. I also thought that there other Countries involved in the taking of (Germany) Berlin. Now I realise that the Russians weren't the first into Berlin after all as they obviously had no role in the war formerly known as The Second World War.

I must also have been wrong about South Korea. There I was thinking that the British were there too. Too bad that it's going to cost a fortune to rewrite all those history books.....



come on now.
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