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i do a lot of philosophical thinking in search of greater truth, and sometimes as i mull everything over in my head, i will express something in a way which seems to better epitomize the true nature of things. so i have an "ahah" moment, and rush to share it with you  

anyway, here's my latest.  to the extent that we have dominion over this world (natural disasters aside), the problems of the earth, are an exact mirror image of the problems in man's  heart. the macro IS the micro.i think this is recounted as the fall of man.

think about it. when we were hunter-gatherers, life was hard and short, but we were all strong, independent, in tune with nature, and a part of nature. this is when we were free from our own created problems, but still at the mercy of the wild. so to escape the wild, we began farming, and establishing permanent towns. i think from that moment on, we began creating our own problems, as band-aids to our new unnatural existence. with more and more people tied to the same place, we invented the concept of ownership, and moralistic laws. all in an effort to minimize our primitive drives.

this is the reason the world is so conflicted today, because we are conflicted. conflicted between our natural selves (where the only rule was survival of the family unit), and our idealistic ambitions of who we should be.

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I think it all started when we first began to try to please women.  Think about it....we were fine before...happily flinging our crap at one another from the trees.  Then one day the girls decided if we wanted their attention, we had to clean up.

Its all been downhill ever since.  Lol!

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I blame George W Bush.                                        

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Ahhh Dennis...so you admit then we are superior! Danke shane! * curtsies*

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Originally Posted by Beth Marik:
Ahhh Dennis...so you admit then we are superior! Danke shane! * curtsies*

Well...its because women are the most desired, most precious thing men can possible find. Why else would we make such fools of ourselves unless to please you ladies? We go to war for power. We build massive empires for power. We buy the best homes and fanciest cars we can to impress. But who are we trying to impress?

Another thing to consider: In the late 60s and throughout the 70s, the feminist movement really got cranked up. Women wanted equal rights and wanted to go into the work force. They didnt want to be the happy home maker. They wanted their own source of income too.

Men were furious! But why? Surely in most cases this would mean more income coming into the family. That should be good right? But men still argued against it and never passed the ERA. Why would they do this?

Because if women were working, they would be independent and no longer needed men for income.

Left to our own devices, most men would probably be just as happy living in a cardboard box as long as it had running water and cable tv.

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well dennis, scientists will tell you that in most species, evolution is driven by the females. they are the ones choosing the mates, and thus what the mates look like. so your theory is likely true. our early female ancestors may have been selecting males based on their intelligence. and since intelligence and protein are so closely tied together, they may have been doing this by choosing the best hunters.



and speaking of conflicted above, i think i need to add that i am also conflicted, perhaps as symptom of the human condition. i'm conflicted because while i do think most of our problems are the results of natural creatures living an unnatural existence, i must also be hopeful that we can one day find a way to really make our unnatural existence work. i do feel we've made tremendous progress as a species, but then i also think that our definition of "progress" is likely way off.

i suppose that in a natural setting, progress could be defined as increasing the numbers of the species, but then we don't live as a part of nature, we almost treat nature as an adversary. is success defined in terms of technology, further advancing our mastery over nature? surely not when it's at the expense of nature. i think the only true measure of progress we can really apply here, isn't even intelligence, but wisdom, and spiritual enlightenment. the ability to better control our natural impulses.

i think one of our most critical natural impulses, sex aside, is that we take the path of least resistance. this one is what's gotten us to the place we are now. of course, if we are able to make ourselves feel better or suffer less, then we will. we will build shelters and stock foods. we will protect ourselves and try to alleviate discomfort. it's part of our hard wiring. it's our very survival instinct. but when you shift to living an unnatural existence, you have to show restraint, because you have risen above the natural order (relatively speaking).

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

i think one of our most critical natural impulses, sex aside, is that we take the path of least resistance. this one is what's gotten us to the place we are now. of course, if we are able to make ourselves feel better or suffer less, then we will. we will build shelters and stock foods. we will protect ourselves and try to alleviate discomfort. it's part of our hard wiring. it's our very survival instinct. but when you shift to living an unnatural existence, you have to show restraint, because you have risen above the natural order (relatively speaking).

Agreed.  As much as I try to live in harmony, doing the best I can for the environment and fellow man (and animals!) I know that I fall short because often it is a question of what is easier for me.  Is it easier for me to get a takeout meal than cook at home.  Then when I cook at home do I use the regular dishes (more enviro friendly) or disposable paper plates (less dishes to clean).  Or do I drive around a parking lot and park in the closest spot, or to I park where I can (wasting less gas) and hoof it inside.  I think you make a valid point.

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I do not agree in a mechanical "pain/problems --> stamina/character development" I say this because one of the most terrifying truths I have ever learned is "the lesson will continue until the lesson is learned". I know I have had to learn the same lesson over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Argan Johnson:
I do not agree in a mechanical "pain/problems --> stamina/character development" I say this because one of the most terrifying truths I have ever learned is "the lesson will continue until the lesson is learned". I know I have had to learn the same lesson over and over again.

but what is the only way a lesson can be learned? through trial and error.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:

but what is the only way a lesson can be learned? through trial and error.

Preferably other people's trials and errors. This line of thinking needs to be tempered with something otherwise we always need to reinvent the wheel.

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not sure i entirely follow.