OFFLINE

The Brits are now talking about hiring an American police chief with an impressive resume to help put an end to the riots/street gang activity.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/08/12/139578452/former-boston-new-york-police-chief-in-talks-for-scotland-yard-job

OFFLINE

Holy ****. What happened to the Great Britain we once admired and respected after WWII? Why don't they just send in their military? Declare martial law.

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Douglas Shireman:
Holy ****. What happened to the Great Britain we once admired and respected after WWII? Why don't they just send in their military? Declare martial law.

We didn't even do that with any of the late 20th century riots (ie Watts, ect), unless you count national guard.

OFFLINE

I remember some brits criticizing  Americans for our gun laws and violence.

OFFLINE

i see this more as a generational thing, than a national thing. the same thing is happening here in phillidelphia.

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Douglas Shireman:
Holy ****. What happened to the Great Britain we once admired and respected after WWII? Why don't they just send in their military? Declare martial law.

The brits are very squeamish about using anything that looks like heavy-handedness or force, because "that's not the way it's done over here, old chap".  That is to say, they are squeamish about using it in England because "We police by consent and it depends on that trust between the police and the public", but have no problems with using it in Northern Ireland...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8690220/London-riots-send-in-water-cannon-to-clear-streets-Theresa-May-told.html

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:

Originally Posted by Douglas Shireman:
Holy ****. What happened to the Great Britain we once admired and respected after WWII? Why don't they just send in their military? Declare martial law.

The brits are very squeamish about using anything that looks like heavy-handedness or force, because "that's not the way it's done over here, old chap".  That is to say, they are squeamish about using it in England because "We police by consent and it depends on that trust between the police and the public", but have no problems with using it in Northern Ireland...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8690220/London-riots-send-in-water-cannon-to-clear-streets-Theresa-May-told.html

pussies.

OFFLINE

so what's the fallout with all this over there?

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i see this more as a generational thing, than a national thing. the same thing is happening here in phillidelphia.

Yep.  I believe its generational too.  Curious though...why do you see it as generational?

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i see this more as a generational thing, than a national thing. the same thing is happening here in phillidelphia.

Yep.  I believe its generational too.  Curious though...why do you see it as generational?

i just see too many of the same traits spread across such a wide area (basically all of the west) coming from the young people of today. as i said, we created this generation. this is the second generation to follow the baby boomers, and counter-culture revolution that accompanied them, and i just feel like this completely changed our culture. it's just the whole neo-philosophy that everyone is a victim of some kind, and we're all entitled to certain things, and social justice through redistribution of wealth, and moral bankruptcy.

OFFLINE

I was wondering how this was going to be covered in here (for some reason I couldn't find this forum). It was weird seeing all this go on all around me. I watched 127 hours on DVD and when it finished (great film) all we could hear were sirens. I turned on the news and it seemed as if all hell had broken loose. It was actually far more widespread than reported, lots of what happened was pretty small fry. I'd guess that probably every high street in London in every area had some kind of looting or damage. My local high street in Sydenham, near the great Crystal Palace (one of the worlds greatest ever buildings which burnt down in 1936), had one shop looted (it had security shutters, they do nothing except make high streets ugly) and a car burnt out and a few windows broken. They also burnt down the new adventure playground, used by kids of al ages.

It was scary. It was exciting. It was unique.

It lasted for about 3 days.

I don't believe we will see it again.

Should they have sent in the Army?
No, the response was right, eventually. It started because of the death of Mark Duggan. There is a lot of anger and frustration due to the student fees and government cuts. Initially I believe that this is what it spilled over into violence.

It spread when the lotting began and the police who were far too low in numbers to stop and and were seen to be allowing it to happen. Crowd mentality meant that it was 'normal' to go and 'get some trainers'. It was exciting for many young to be involved in it. The riots were exciting even staying at home and watching it on TV. Many looters don't even know why they looted.

My favorite quote from the riots was when a lawyer said 'there is only one word to describe my client, Fool' (when in the dock accused of looting). The judge said 'there is only one word to describe your client: Burglar'.

I think it erupted into small groups of mindless thugs, mobilized though the excuse of civil unrest, social media and phones to go and get stuff, join in the party, join in the excitement. Some said it was a demonstration. It wasn't. It was a few thousand people who managed to cause havoc and mayhem, who don't know the meaning of real poverty, who want the destination but not the journey, the fortune without the work.

Many of these are now facing stretches in prison which may make the situation worse, although I'd hope that they would be put to good use fixing our neighbourhoods as 'community payback teams' where they can undoo what they have done and be put to good.

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Lee Newham:

My favorite quote from the riots was when a lawyer said 'there is only one word to describe my client, Fool'.

The lawyer wasn't Mr. T was he? Did he pity him as well?

:-p

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Lee Newham:
I think it erupted into small groups of mindless thugs, mobilized though the excuse of civil unrest, social media and phones to go and get stuff, join in the party, join in the excitement. Some said it was a demonstration. It wasn't. It was a few thousand people who managed to cause havoc and mayhem, who don't know the meaning of real poverty, who want the destination but not the journey, the fortune without the work.

Many of these are now facing stretches in prison which may make the situation worse, although I'd hope that they would be put to good use fixing our neighbourhoods as 'community payback teams' where they can undoo what they have done and be put to good.

Wow, you were right in the middle of it werent you!  Did any homes get looted, or was it just businesses?  I think you are right.  From what I could tell it was probably thugs using this as an excuse to vandalize and destroy.  

Imo, its like Dod said.  It appears that this generation is more selfish and self absorbed than back in the old days.  Less respect for other people's things, their rights, their dignity.  On another forum I go to, someone was talking about taking a train somewhere in england and he described the graffiti and vandalism spray painted on the walls.  

We have that here too in areas.  (Some) people just seem to be destructive and dont care about other folks.  I understand there were riots in Philly too.

Whats the answer?

OFFLINE

Originally Posted by Lee Newham:
I don't believe we will see it again.

Should they have sent in the Army?
No, the response was right, eventually. It started because of the death of Mark Duggan. There is a lot of anger and frustration due to the student fees and government cuts. Initially I believe that this is what it spilled over into violence.

why? it's not as if this is a one-off. i remember all those punks rioting outside somewhere when they felt their entitlements were encroached upon. you think all that anger and frustration has just gone away? you think the lower class kids and the younger generation  don't see this as a class warfare issue? you think all the socialist indoctrination hasn't been effective? i mean these bastards think that they're owed by society, and well if they cant just get what they want, then they'll take it, AND feel no remorse, because it's basically rightfully theirs in their eyes. if the system has kept them down (as it has in many of their eyes), then screw the system. the rich can afford to absorb the cost of all their destruction and looting. it's just redistribution of wealth through their own means. so unless the youth of the uk are well taken care of, you may get some tantrums from time to time, and all will take is a catalyst. an excuse to launch masses into the streets. and that's not just in the uk. the same is going on over here, just on a much smaller scale. again i reference the flash robs going on in american cities. this is class warfare, through and through.

OFFLINE

I don't think high youth (16-24 yr.) unemployment rates have ever lead to anything good.  When you have numbers like 20.5% (UK), 18.3% (US; BLS for Summer 2011), 36% (Greece), 44.3% (Spain), 25% (Egypt), or 30% (Tunisia).  I would imagine this plays a major role in what happened.