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i just witnessed the second coming of the clinton presidency, in the form of obama's news conference on the tax cut compromise. as much as i hate it, and as long overdue as it is, i think this shift toward the middle by barry, will really help him in his popularity. it makes him look like he's above, or dettached from the typical congressional partisanship. i think that if he continues to act as an arbitrator, and to kind of take the reigns of the dem party from the far-left, then he'll be back in contention come 2012.

cynically speaking, he realizes that the democrats had their wild **** of spending and total control, and that all that is over now. it is literally history repeating itself, the only difference being, obama actually passed healthcare, and the smorgasbord of other dem wish list projects in the form of the "stimulus."

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i just witnessed the second coming of the clinton presidency, in the form of obama's news conference on the tax cut compromise. as much as i hate it, and as long overdue as it is, i think this shift toward the middle by barry, will really help him in his popularity. it makes him look like he's above, or dettached from the typical congressional partisanship. i think that if he continues to act as an arbitrator, and to kind of take the reigns of the dem party from the far-left, then he'll be back in contention come 2012.

cynically speaking, he realizes that the democrats had their wild **** of spending and total control, and that all that is over now. it is literally history repeating itself, the only difference being, obama actually passed healthcare, and the smorgasbord of other dem wish list projects in the form of the "stimulus."

Agreed. He knows if he stays with the lib left ...his base,he will be outed for Hillary (which is worse IMO) ..or lose to Palin(which is not all that cool either).

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Originally Posted by John Kaschnigg:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i just witnessed the second coming of the clinton presidency, in the form of obama's news conference on the tax cut compromise. as much as i hate it, and as long overdue as it is, i think this shift toward the middle by barry, will really help him in his popularity. it makes him look like he's above, or dettached from the typical congressional partisanship. i think that if he continues to act as an arbitrator, and to kind of take the reigns of the dem party from the far-left, then he'll be back in contention come 2012.

cynically speaking, he realizes that the democrats had their wild **** of spending and total control, and that all that is over now. it is literally history repeating itself, the only difference being, obama actually passed healthcare, and the smorgasbord of other dem wish list projects in the form of the "stimulus."

Agreed. He knows if he stays with the lib left ...his base,he will be outed for Hillary (which is worse IMO) ..or lose to Palin(which is not all that cool either).

i don't think palin will be his competition. i hope not anyway. conservatives aren't as big on her as many would believe. they like her as a conservative voice, and as a cheerleader type figure - a poster child - but not too many actually want her to get the republican nomination. they like where she's at now, not as a presidential candidate. at least that's what i've picked up.

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Trust me, there are plenty people that are pissed and/or disapointed with him.  He is acting more like a Republican than a Democrat.  I would rather see the taxes expire for everyone rather than extend them to the millionaires and billionaires.  They talk about fiscal responcibity... How are we going to pay our debts, when no one wants to pay taxes?! This just means we'll be borrowing more money form china, Saudi Arabia, etc.  But then, what do I care?  I figure I got about 20 years left, if I'm lucky.  Let the next generations pay it all back. I can't understand how these tax cuts haven't created many jobs in the 10 years they've been in effect, (unless those are the jobs that went to China), yet extending them for 2 more years will create jobs.  Makes no sense to me, nor any economist that I have seen speak or write about it.  

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Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
I can't understand how these tax cuts haven't created many jobs in the 10 years they've been in effect  

well they already did. they brought us out of the recession we were in at the time of 9/11 (the one clinton doesn't get credit for) and took us all the way to the next recession almost 10 years later. but when the markets completely collapsed, and the worst recession since the great depression began, of course those tax cuts aren't going to create any jobs, especially when they're set to expire, and businesses don't know how to financially plan for the next couple of years.

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it's really amazing to me how the far left is behaving over this. like spoiled brats. they want income redistribution, and they wanted obama to fly a kamikaze mission, to take the whole ship down with their bad policies. the very fact that they keep talking about "letting" millionaires and billionaires have more money, and how much it will "cost" is repulsive to me. it really shows how the left views taxes. they act as if ALL of OUR money belongs to them, and we're just lucky they let us have as much as they do. how can "letting" people have more of THEIR OWN money, "cost" anything? it can't. talk about hostage takers? well the democrat party has been held hostage by the far-left for far too long. disappointing.

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and it's also repulsive to me how $200,000 a year now makes someone a millionaire or billionaire. the democrats obviously have not one single clue as to how business, and private industry works.

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another thing that's interesting to me, is how for years the dems said the bush tax cuts only benefited the rich, yet now you hear them talking about extending the bush middle class tax cuts. but how can there be any middle class tax cuts, if the bush tax cuts only benefited the rich?

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
it's really amazing to me how the far left is behaving over this. like spoiled brats. they want income redistribution, and they wanted obama to fly a kamikaze mission, to take the whole ship down with their bad policies. the very fact that they keep talking about "letting" millionaires and billionaires have more money, and how much it will "cost" is repulsive to me. it really shows how the left views taxes. they act as if ALL of OUR money belongs to them, and we're just lucky they let us have as much as they do.

Yeah, its becoming clear that there are plain ol liberals...and then there are the radical leftists.  And the radicals are the ones screaming the loudest about this.  George Soros, Code Pink, OSI, The Weather Underground, etc.  These are the people who want to stick it to the GOP and the Tea party folks no matter if it takes down our entire economy.

To most of us, we see this latest move by Obama as someone who worked to get a compromise so as to get some help for unemployed folks.  In order to do that he had to play ball with the opposition.  This is called politics.  If you dont have clear power in Congress, you have to play ball.  this is why we went to the polls last November.  To force the opposition to tone down its radically leftist programs and move more to the center.

I think most Dems approve of what Obama did.  The dangerous people, though, are the ones doing most of the criticizing.  If he hadnt cut this deal, an awful lot of people were going to be destitute right at Christmas.

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Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
Trust me, there are plenty people that are pissed and/or disapointed with him.  He is acting more like a Republican than a Democrat.  I would rather see the taxes expire for everyone rather than extend them to the millionaires and billionaires.

See...I'm completely opposite.  I dont want to have to pay more taxes.  I cant afford it.  Period!  I'd be destitute.  And if giving a tax cut to a millionaire is the only way to get a tax break...fine with me.  Also, how will raising my taxes bring me finacial stability?  Raising people's taxes (which is what would have happened if Obama hadnt cut this deal) has never brought more employment.  

Millionaires will have money either way.  They can pay their bills.  People like me, cant.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Sarah Skinner:
Trust me, there are plenty people that are pissed and/or disapointed with him.  He is acting more like a Republican than a Democrat.  I would rather see the taxes expire for everyone rather than extend them to the millionaires and billionaires.

See...I'm completely opposite.  I dont want to have to pay more taxes.  I cant afford it.  Period!  I'd be destitute.  And if giving a tax cut to a millionaire is the only way to get a tax break...fine with me.  Also, how will raising my taxes bring me finacial stability?  Raising people's taxes (which is what would have happened if Obama hadnt cut this deal) has never brought more employment.  

Millionaires will have money either way.  They can pay their bills.  People like me, cant.

but see, you're approaching it from a rational standpoint. the far-left zealots, the marxists and one world government types, don't look at the world rationally. i would also divide liberals into two groups. those who have a big heart, and are caring, but have been deceived by decades of liberal propaganda, into thinking that liberals actually care about the little guy, and that this is what liberal programs are intended for. and then you have the scary guys who know that their policies all about the retention of power from the people, to the state.

in my estimate, this flies in the face of everything we've been told about the progressive element, which has become the core of the democratic party. it's really scary. i mean if you've read into the philosophies of leftists, where they actually tell you what they think, then you would know why the cold war was fought. and the thing of it is, they are in such contradiction to what they say they are all about, which is helping the needy.

humans are not ants. we can't sacrifice all individuality for the sake of the colony. it is the human spirit that needs hope. our lives need some kind of promise to be realized, not insulated by nanny government, surrendering all personal sovereignty to the state.

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part of me thinks this whole dem civil war is a rouse, and an effective one, because i've caught it working on even me. basically, what this does, is it puts obama on the side of the people, virtually for the first time, and gives him political cover. pelosi and reid are already unpopular as it is, so why not let them continue to be the bad guys, while coming down on the opposite side of an issue, and helping to take the wind out of the republican's sails? i think all this is a tactical maneuver. really, the only way obama stands a chance at reelection, is if he somehow again, transforms himself into a moderate. and i think the **** elements of the left know this, and they don't like the thought of it. they had their guy in there, finally, and they gave him the majorities to at last force through their change, and achieve "equality" once for all. but it seems obama reinforces the notion that nothing matters more to a politician than reelection. which is comforting to me. i had convinced myself that he was a true believer, and willing to fall on his own sword for the sake of the cause.