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that the more we spend on education, the poorer results we get?




A 2009 comparison between public and Catholic school SAT scores show that public school students had an overall average of 496 points on the critical reading portion of the test while Catholic school students scored 533 points on the same portion. Catholic school students outscored their public school counterparts by an average of 23 points.

What makes the numbers more impressive is that Catholic high schools spend more than $2,000 less per pupil than public schools.
Very few parochial school teachers are members of the powerful education unions at the center of so many of the fights to reform the public education system.

"When unions get involved in having contracts in schools, they tend to control everything from the operations, to who gets hired... and even the curriculum for that matter," said Jeanne Allen who heads the Center for Education Reform.

Education experts say the absence of teachers’ unions means Catholic schools can address problems related to curriculum or even class size immediately instead of getting permission from union leaders or renegotiating contacts. Ristau explains that teachers and principals in Catholic schools can address these issues by simply sitting around a table instead of waiting for "five committees downtown" to reach a decision.

Catholic school teachers are less likely to have advanced degrees than their public school counterparts and generally don’t get the same levels of pay and benefits. But teachers still compete for Catholic teaching slots, a fact experts attribute to the chance to work in a more disciplined atmosphere with families that have made a the choice to seek a better education for their children

Allen explains that Catholic school leaders are keenly aware that if parents don’t think they’re getting what they paid for, then they'll "vote with their feet" and leave the school. That, in turn, encourages careful hiring.

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I saw something about this a few weeks ago.

I bet that Catholic Schools still have prayer.
Probably still say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Probably pay closer attention to good citizenship.
Probably have stricter discipline.
And probably do not see underachievers as a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
I saw something about this a few weeks ago.

I bet that Catholic Schools still have prayer.
Probably still say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Probably pay closer attention to good citizenship.
Probably have stricter discipline.
And probably do not see underachievers as a lost cause.

i think the main thing is that they're subject to competition, unlike public schools. in a way, our public education system seems to reward failure. if there are schools that are underperforming, then they must need even more money to help right the ship. but it doesn't work that way. i still need to see that film "waiting for superman." i hear good things.

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I come from a family of educators.  Mom was an assistant principal at my high school, and before that a govt/economics teacher for 30 years.  I had two aunts who retired from teaching and have 2 cousins currently teaching.  And I went into education in college (before I wised up).

One of the major problems with Public School is that, although money get's allocated by govt to fund the schools...it rarely makes its way into the classroom.  The fraud and abuse is incredible.  Often it gets diverted to athletics.  Sometimes it winds up in some bureaucrat's pocket.

Teachers get tenure, which means that if a teacher is a bad teacher, but comes to work everyday and doesnt actually molest a student...they cant get fired.  I've seen teachers in the classroom that didnt know their subject.  Teachers that drank during their breaks.  Teachers that would disappear and you'd find them in town.

Most teachers arent like that.  But if you figure you are spending thousands per year on a bad teacher (and most schools have at least 1), multiply that by the number of schools in the nation and average it out...thats a buttload of money wasted.  Add that to the thousands of bucks that are wasted in fraud or just outright stolen...

And minority teachers will fight you til the bitter end over standardized testing.  They claim its racist and have the powerful NEA union to back them.

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i just want to know how a test can be racist? it's not like all the questions are, "if kip is driving to a tennis lesson in malibu at 80mph in his ferarri...."

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Thats a good question...and it has been asked.  But the NEA is so strong, so powerful that it has forced the Dept of Education (or whoever brought up the issue of the tests) to back down.

So now, teachers get tenure, and it almost takes an act of Congress to remove them once they get it.

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yeah, it's kind of messed up. my wife works for a school funded directly by the state (florida school for the deaf and the blind[huge campas]) and while the teachers receive annual raises, this, that, and the other, everyone else has been on a pay freeze for 5 years due to budgetary issues, and are understaffed, due to a hiring freeze.

meanwhile, you still have management buying new desks, flat screens, and computers at the end of each year, because they HAVE to spend what's in their budget. how about a bonus or something? just illustrates what's wrong with bureaucracy.