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Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:
I don't think its possible for anyone to be considered a competent president with a divided government these days.  A large part of this problem is that too many idiots in our country were apparently spending more time chasing skirts than paying attention during their 6th and 12th grade government classes.  They seem to forget that the president can not make laws, nor is it his responsibility to force congress to do their jobs.  The only official influence the president has over legislation it to veto it, however the Republicans have taken away this power by mixing crap legislation with provisions that are needed to keep the government working and giving them to him at the 11th hour, so that if he vetos it there is no time to pass another law.  What choice does he have, sacrifice the country for ideology or sign something unsavory?  Also, compromise is not a bad thing.  Those on both sides that hold to the mantra 'my way or the highway' need a good smack upside their overly thick craniums.

Yes indeed memory sure is quick to leave us. It has taken you less than 1 year to forget everything that happened before Reps took the House.

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Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Obama's done.

Well, given the republican hopefuls debate last night, who is going to "do" him so?

Honestly........none of them have a real chance next year. Support is up now, but it will wane.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:

I don't know about that, Texas hasn't exactly flourished under his leadership.  For example:

*32% of Texans failed to graduate from high school
*Texas students SAT scores rank 49th in the nation for verbal and 46th in math, making Texas's school system one of the worst in the nation.  Perry turned down federal money for schools.
*Only a quarter of Texans hold BA/BS or higher degrees
*Texas has the fifth highest poverty rate in the US (16.2% of population below poverty line, compared with national 12.6% below poverty.  Texas only beats Mississippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, and Alabama).
*Texas has one of the highest incarceration rates in the nation and ranks 15th in the nation for violent crime
*Texas has 5th highest teen pregnancy rate in nation, and 2nd highest teen live birth rate
*Texas has the highest percent of individuals lacking health insurance in the United States

Yet for all of that, Texas' economy is whipping up on the national economy and that is going to be the bottom line this time around.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i actually don't think ron paul is quite as mad as i once did, but is still a bit of a loon.

Allow Iran to get the nuclear bomb after all the threats they have made?  Plus legalize ALL drugs, pot, ****, heroin, etc?  A bit of a loon?  The man is insane.

Idea.....instead of just throwing insults, try to defeat his arguments with a sensible argument of your own.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Plus legalize ALL drugs, pot, ****, heroin, etc?  A bit of a loon?  The man is insane.

Well, it'd get him the stoner vote, if they didn't forget to go out and vote on the day... :-P

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Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i actually don't think ron paul is quite as mad as i once did, but is still a bit of a loon.

Allow Iran to get the nuclear bomb after all the threats they have made?  Plus legalize ALL drugs, pot, ****, heroin, etc?  A bit of a loon?  The man is insane.

Idea.....instead of just throwing insults, try to defeat his arguments with a sensible argument of your own.

Hey, thats what the man said!  

Here are some sensible arguments then.

Dont allow Iran to get the nuke.
Dont legalize pot, or **** or other drugs.
And stand by our allies in they Middle East (Israel).  Today he said point blank that if Iran attacked Israel with a nuke, he would not intervene.  I'm sorry but if we stood by and allowed this to happen, we'd lose so much, not to mention stabbing our friend in the back.  We get tons of intel from them, plus they nearly always stand by us in crucial voting in the UN.

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Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Rick Perry could destroy him.
Bachman could beat him.
Romney could beat him.

Actually I could live with any of the GOP hopefuls except Ron Paul.  (That guy's a nut).

Irony:

A conservative who labels the only true conservative candidate "a nut".

What part of legalizing pot, legalizing **** and other drugs and standing by and allowing Iran to attack Israel is conservative?  ???

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Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
Plus legalize ALL drugs, pot, ****, heroin, etc?  A bit of a loon?  The man is insane.

Well, it'd get him the stoner vote, if they didn't forget to go out and vote on the day... :-P

You're right about that.  Lol!

The thing about Ron Paul is that he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.  He tries to say all the right things when it comes to the economy.

However, he mixes in some strange idealogy in with it.  

He's a Free Trader.  (Many Conservatives are Fair Traders).
He's against a National ID card.  (Many of us are for it).
He's against warrant-less wire tapping.  (I'm for that).
He takes states rights too far.  For instance, allowing states themselves to decide on gay marriage. ( Conservatives believe this ignores the problems that would arise when gay couples move to another state).
He's pro life (which implies that he thinks abortion is murder. Yet he's for allowing individual states to allow legalized murder in the form of abortion).
He opposes the war on drugs.
He defends the actions of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange and his organization.
And he was critical of the Civil Rights Act of 1964!



So in this video he opposed a US resolution that called for Israel's right to defend itself, and he tells Congress that Hamas was created by Israel and that we encouraged the radicalization of Arabs.

Here's the truth about Hamas:

Re: Starting Hamas.  Former military intelligence officer Shalom Harari said  "Israel never financed Hamas. Israel never armed Hamas.

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza had formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya, a charity recognized by Israel in 1979. Israel allowed the organization to build mosques, clubs, schools, and a library in Gaza. According to Yitzhak Segev, (the acting governor of Gaza in 1979), Yassin and his charity were completely peaceful towards Israel during this time.  Segev maintained regular contact with Yassin, met with him around a dozen times, and even arranged for Yassin to be taken to Israel for hospital treatment.

Then, In 1984 the Israeli army received intelligence that Sheikh Yassin's followers were collecting arms in Gaza. Israeli troops raided mosques and found a cache of weapons.[17] Yassin was arrested, but told his interrogators the weapons were meant to be used against secular Palestinians, not Israel. The cleric was released and allowed to continue to develop his movement in Gaza.

In 1987, several Palestinians were killed in a traffic accident involving an Israeli driver, and the events that followed – a Palestinian uprising (now known as the First Intifada) against Israel's West Bank and Gaza occupation – led Yassin and six other Palestinians to found Hamas as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood movement.

Hamas carried out its first attack against Israel in 1989, abducting and killing two soldiers.

So We didnt have anything to do with Hamas and neither did Israel.

What part of legalizing pot, legalizing **** and other drugs and standing by and allowing Iran to attack Israel and turning a blind eye to people like Assange is conservative?  ???

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Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:

I don't know about that, Texas hasn't exactly flourished under his leadership.  For example:

*32% of Texans failed to graduate from high school
*Texas students SAT scores rank 49th in the nation for verbal and 46th in math, making Texas's school system one of the worst in the nation.  Perry turned down federal money for schools.
*Only a quarter of Texans hold BA/BS or higher degrees
*Texas has the fifth highest poverty rate in the US (16.2% of population below poverty line, compared with national 12.6% below poverty.  Texas only beats Mississippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, and Alabama).
*Texas has one of the highest incarceration rates in the nation and ranks 15th in the nation for violent crime
*Texas has 5th highest teen pregnancy rate in nation, and 2nd highest teen live birth rate
*Texas has the highest percent of individuals lacking health insurance in the United States

Yet for all of that, Texas' economy is whipping up on the national economy and that is going to be the bottom line this time around.

Really, because looking at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website they don't so special, their unemployment is higher than several states and the number of mass layoffs has increased every month.  They also have the 17th lowest median income (47,143 per household, meaning that the mean individual salary is probably just over 23K, pretty low, data from US Census).  It may be true that Texas has attracted some new companies (by bribing them, see Texas citation below), but their pay is still low and their unemployment still higher than several other states.

BLS: http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.tx.htm
Census: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/index.html
Texas: http://governor.state.tx.us/priorities/economy/investing_for_growth/texas_enterprise_fund/

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i actually don't think ron paul is quite as mad as i once did, but is still a bit of a loon.

Allow Iran to get the nuclear bomb after all the threats they have made?  Plus legalize ALL drugs, pot, ****, heroin, etc?  A bit of a loon?  The man is insane.

Idea.....instead of just throwing insults, try to defeat his arguments with a sensible argument of your own.

Hey, thats what the man said!  

Here are some sensible arguments then.

Dont allow Iran to get the nuke.
Dont legalize pot, or **** or other drugs.
And stand by our allies in they Middle East (Israel).  Today he said point blank that if Iran attacked Israel with a nuke, he would not intervene.  I'm sorry but if we stood by and allowed this to happen, we'd lose so much, not to mention stabbing our friend in the back.  We get tons of intel from them, plus they nearly always stand by us in crucial voting in the UN.

Don't just make claims, formulate formal logical arguments for them.  As in 'Don't legalize pot, or ****, or other drugs because...'

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

Hey, thats what the man said!  

Here are some sensible arguments then.

Dont allow Iran to get the nuke.
Dont legalize pot, or **** or other drugs.
And stand by our allies in they Middle East (Israel).  Today he said point blank that if Iran attacked Israel with a nuke, he would not intervene.  I'm sorry but if we stood by and allowed this to happen, we'd lose so much, not to mention stabbing our friend in the back.  We get tons of intel from them, plus they nearly always stand by us in crucial voting in the UN.

Still no real argument other than statements.
I will say more in response to another post you made.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:
What part of legalizing pot, legalizing **** and other drugs and standing by and allowing Iran to attack Israel is conservative?  ???

True conservatives like to conserve the ideals of the Constitution. Paul likes to conserve the ideals of the Constitution. Those ideals are a small unobtrusive government that has no binding ties to any foreign entity.

Prohibition intrudes into the citizens private life. Government has no right, under the Constitution, to do so as long as the citizens private life does not intrude upon another citizen's rights. What your neighbor does in the privacy of his own home is his business and not yours, the government or anybody else. The drugs you do not mention, which are legal, are just as deadly as the ones you did mention.......and they are legal. On a moral level, there is no difference.....just an ingrained bias. It isn't like Reafer Madness is a true depiction.  

So what you are saying is that tUSSR, Germany, Japan, and any other nation could have told us, tUSA, that we could not have nuclear power??? Posturing is one thing, using it is another. All nations have the right to do what they feel is necessary to keep or acquire a competitive advantage as long as.....and we are repeating ourselves here.....they do not hamper the rights of another nation. We as a country have no moral right or obligation, under the Constitution, to tell another nation that they cannot have nuclear power.

If you believe that government can stick its nose into its citizens business as well as other nation's business.....then you are not a true conservative.

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Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:

Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:

I don't know about that, Texas hasn't exactly flourished under his leadership.  For example:

*32% of Texans failed to graduate from high school
*Texas students SAT scores rank 49th in the nation for verbal and 46th in math, making Texas's school system one of the worst in the nation.  Perry turned down federal money for schools.
*Only a quarter of Texans hold BA/BS or higher degrees
*Texas has the fifth highest poverty rate in the US (16.2% of population below poverty line, compared with national 12.6% below poverty.  Texas only beats Mississippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, and Alabama).
*Texas has one of the highest incarceration rates in the nation and ranks 15th in the nation for violent crime
*Texas has 5th highest teen pregnancy rate in nation, and 2nd highest teen live birth rate
*Texas has the highest percent of individuals lacking health insurance in the United States

Yet for all of that, Texas' economy is whipping up on the national economy and that is going to be the bottom line this time around.

Really, because looking at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website they don't so special, their unemployment is higher than several states and the number of mass layoffs has increased every month.  They also have the 17th lowest median income (47,143 per household, meaning that the mean individual salary is probably just over 23K, pretty low, data from US Census).  It may be true that Texas has attracted some new companies (by bribing them, see Texas citation below), but their pay is still low and their unemployment still higher than several other states.

BLS: http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.tx.htm
Census: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/statemedian/index.html
Texas: http://governor.state.tx.us/priorities/economy/investing_for_growth/texas_enterprise_fund/

Being behind several individual states is not the same same lagging behind the nation. Texas doesn't have to be the across the board leader for me to comfortably say that they are ahead of the national economy (we already know that Texas has created more jobs during this economic downturn than most other places combined). Besides individual salary means nothing much in the grand scheme of things. Cost of living has much more to do with it (life is never about what you make as much as it is about what you spend). Let's use an example from my time in Cali. The offshore workers in Cali earn at least $15 grand/year more than the typical offshore workers in LA. That means nothing since the worker doing the same job in LA can afford nicer houses and nicer toys since the cost of living is much lower. Several of the guys I worked with are now working in the Gulf. They realized they would make less per hour, but they also knew, from talking to the Cajun boys, that the money they did make would go further. I took great joy in telling them how much I paid for my land and house....less than $300,000 and the same setup would go for about $1000000 if not more in Cali (I know 'cause I checked the real estate periodicals).

Many of the things you listed also play into the question you asked about teen pregnancy rates in the Bible belt. There is an answer (although the one you find may be unpleasant) to the question, but I will let you figure it out.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:


However, he mixes in some strange idealogy in with it.  

He's a Free Trader.  (Many Conservatives are Fair Traders).

Yep, your right

He's against a National ID card.  (Many of us are for it).

No true conservatives are for it. Only those that do not mind an intrusive government.

He's against warrant-less wire tapping.  (I'm for that).

Wait....what??? How could anybody logically be for that. Doesn't get much more intrusive than that.

He takes states rights too far.  For instance, allowing states themselves to decide on gay marriage. ( Conservatives believe this ignores the problems that would arise when gay couples move to another state).

Only the religious right is against gay marriage. The whole argument is folly and a waste of time and energy. There is much more important things that really affect our nation for us to worry about.....a true conservative would see that.

He's pro life (which implies that he thinks abortion is murder. Yet he's for allowing individual states to allow legalized murder in the form of abortion).

A true conservative believes that states do have the right to make their own choices. There are instances where abortion is morally correct. Not much in this life is clear cut.

He opposes the war on drugs.

Thanks in large part to the war on drugs tUSA has the highest prison rate in the world. Even higher than those "bad guy" countries you hate so much. Does that mean that our citizens are somehow worse than the citizenry of other nations??? Legalizing certain drugs will ease the financial burden our nation has to pay to house what is really nonviolent criminals (that are in the process of learning how to be violent criminals as we speak).

He defends the actions of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange and his organization.

Wikileaks did nothing against the law in reality so what is there to be critical of???

And he was critical of the Civil Rights Act of 1964!

That is because it was redundant. The Constitution already guaranteed equal rights to all. If we would have followed it (and it was the religious right who fought it) the Civil Rights movement would have been unnecessary. It was also at this time when the southern portion of the religious right (know then as Dixiecrats) became Neo-Conservatives and joined the Republican party. Us real conservatives have had to live with the shame and the struggle to regain our party ever since. So yeah, I'm kinda critical of that too.

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Originally Posted by Mark Simmons:

If you believe that government can stick its nose into its citizens business as well as other nation's business.....then you are not a true conservative.

So going by that, given that all of the republican candidates believe it's for the govt to stick its nose into ppl's business in the areas of abortion and gay rights, then none of them are true conservatives?