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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:


i hear you, just stating the regrettable facts of the situation we're in. and you seem to be saying that it's okay to raise the debt limit now that the democrats want to, and i'm saying that yes, both sides are guilty, but that doesn't mean we can just continue to do what we've been doing. particularly when almost every president in recent decades has virtually doubled the deficit spending of the last. and every single government report says that our entitlements will not be here, at all, if we keep on going with the way things are now. and all the reports also tell us, that entitlements currently make up the bulk of our mandatory spending, and will continue to make up even more in the coming decade. and i ask you this. where are the democrats' solutions to any of this? rather than trying to fix anything themselves, they're more content to let the republicans make proposals, and then attack them for it. the democrats seem to be defending the status quo, in spite of the fact that all these programs are going belly up. where are their solutions?

Amen.  I have seen nothing from the Dems to indicate they have any plan.  And I have yet to hear a good reason why raising the debt ceiling and spending more money will reduce our debt.  But that seems to be their plan.  Spend more money.

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
you want to bring the troops home, fine. in an ideal world, i would too. but slashing military spending WILL NOT solve the problem of the federal budget crisis we're in. and it's not something you can tax your way out of either. at least not the way it's done now. right now, half of americans don't pay ANY taxes at all, myself included, and probably you too. ideally, i would like to go to a consumption tax, or at least simplify the tax codes and eliminate loopholes. to tell the truth, i don't think the government should be subsidizing ANYTHING. so why stop at big oil? how about GE, GM, NPR, PBS, planned parenthood, paying farmers more to burn their corn than to produce it for food, green energy, EVERYTHING! get rid of it. the government needs to get out of the business of business.

Eh...I'm scared of that.  I agree with simplifying the tax code.  And you are right about paying farmers to burn their crops.  We have a farmer in our town who does it legally and makes a nice living doing it.  Thats just wrong imo.  But legal.  

But a consumption tax is the close cousin to a VAT tax and a national sales tax.  That sort of tax would still cost people more in several ways.  It hits truckers by adding more tax to the fuel they use to ship goods...and causes prices to rise.  It hits farmers who produce food with farm equipment...and causes prices to rise.  All that gets passed on to the consumer, who is also getting hit by a tax on how much food and/or services they buy.  And that kills the poor.  It would wind up forcing more onto food stamps and welfare...which comes out of the pocket of taxpayers.  Herman Cain wants a national sales tax too....and I just cant get behind that.

I favor a flat tax with exemptions for people bring in less that a certain amount of income.  That way people get taxed the same percentage of their income regardless whether they are rich or middle class.  And the poor dont suffer.  And prices dont necessarily have to skyrocket because it shouldnt affect shipping. In fact, in some cases, businesses and farmers might get a better deal under a flat tax structure than they would under a consumption or vat or national sales tax.  

Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:
i mean we have to get serious about cutting everywhere. we have to get serious about balancing the budget, or we're going to wind up like greece. and if this is going to happen, then we HAVE to try to restructure the biggest part of our mandatory spending. what i'm suggesting is that it doesn't help to frame the debate as if evil republicans want to kill people, or make people suffer. until both sides get serious about it, that's what it's going to be. they're feeding a fear of change. right now, we can make changes and still save these programs, but that's not going to be the case if we do nothing until the programs expire.

Agreed.  What aggravates me is that people from both sides of the aisle are so zealous in trying to demonize the other side, that they are blind to the idea that sometimes the other side might have a decent idea.