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Eastern or Western Sideral --- Which do you use?

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Eastern or Western Sidereal, which do you use?

I'd love to know your thoughts, please weigh in~ I can tell you that for a long time now I have been questioning this very issue, for the simple fact that transits were not working as I expected them too.

The following is discourse with Astrologer Mark Kincaid on Facebook as "Mark Kincaid" and owner of the website: http://www.naturesastrology.com/ Mark kindly gave his permission 01/16/2011 for me to share this info with you~ He posted info on a Jupiter transit, which raised questions for me. It is possible that if we use the Western Sideral we will be missing something. ~


Responder: Dear Mark, if you for yourself analyze the full description of Signs, do you use just Eastern description or also from Western?

Mark Kincaid: They're both pretty much the same...but, my descriptions of each sign comes from having done 7,000 people's charts over the last 30 years of doing Astrology and over watching each day, for 365 days x 18 years...of nature's transits. Those transits too teach us a lot about the essential nature and qualities and characteristics of each sign too.
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Astronet Reunion Thank you for this information~ Could you elaborate on what this means: "its running about the 4th degree of Pisces" Thank you~

Mark Kincaid: Hi Astronet Reunion. That means that right now, in the actual sky, Jupiter is at the 4th degree of the 30 degrees of Pisces.

I raised the question because of the statement that Jupiter is at the 4th degree of the 30 degrees of Pisces.

Astronet Reunion: Hi Mark, my ephemeris (I was taught to use the Simplified Scientific Ephemeris by Rosicrucian Fellowship) and the Astro-Clock (Vegas Software) is on my desktop. Both show Jupiter to be at 28 Pisces, are these wrong?

Mark Kincaid: You're using the western, tropical ephemeris... Today, many are switching over to both the Sidereal Western or Eastern Sidereal mathematics....

Having done myself now over 7,000 charts and the Transits of each day 365 X 20 years I can confidently say that nature herself is following the Sidereal

Mark Kincaid: But each one of us needs to confirm this for ourselves...I always suggest watching the Moon every day for 2-3 months and those transits will convince anyone that nature is following the vedic mathematics...
watch especially as the Moon moves... from Cancer, to Leo, to Virgo, Libra and Scorpio each month and you will feel radiating through the Moon, the realities of each of the Signs on those exact days.

Mark Kincaid: The Western Astrological system is a very interesting and at the same time kind of strange system. It of course, two thousand years ago, can be traced to the study and the use of the 'actual sky'.

Then, during the Dark Ages, ...a huge 300 year gap in Astrology happened. Then, the people interested in getting Astrology goin again in Europe ceases upon the mathematics of Ptolemy a Greek astrologer and astronomer.

At the time his mathematics did fit the actual sky. But, because his mathematics was based on the equinoxes and it didn't take into account the precession of the equinoxes, then over time, this relatively 'new' system began to drift away from the actual sky.

It was so slow however that no one noticed. It only drifted about 1 degree every 72 years. But, now, twenty-three, seventy-two year periods later, we've got a modern day Western Astrology which is literally 23 degrees separate from the actual sky.

So, about 50 years ago, one western astrologer by the name of Cyril Fagan first proposed leaving this western mathematics and getting back to the original Sidereal - Actual sky mathematics. That then became Sidereal Western Astrology which is 23 degrees different than the older version, which is now called Tropical Astrology.

As it turns out, the eastern system, fueled in part due to the fact that it never had any break in itself, has always been Sidereal in nature. So, it's already in-tune with this new Western Sidereal system.

There are of course, many subtle aspects of the Jyoti-sh or Vedic system which are different than both of the Western systems.

The Eastern system has this extremely precise and subtle system of the Dasas which describes the exact positive and negative karmas of our charts, which will be coming back at every moment in the future.

Also, the Eastern system has a very complicated and detailed aspect system which is more accurate than the Western one.

People will find both in their personal experiences and also in the stars themselves moving about, that the universe itself is literally following the mathematics of the Vedic system.

Because the Eastern system had long forgotten how to use Astrology as a tool for personal self-development, they stopped using it for Psychological reasons.

They typically only use it for predictions, looking ahead, seeing the difficult periods and recommending for people to look out for those times. Unfortunately, this is a very narrow application of Astrology's wide range of possible uses.

In the future, we'll learn to use it literally for each and every aspect of life, from child rearing, to education, health, career counseling, how to make more money, relationships, (though even now the eastern system does use Jyoti-sh a lot for marriage partner selection), and even spirituality.

Astronet Reunion: Hi Mark,,thank you for the informative response~ one more question please? What caused you to study Eastern Sidereal as well as Western if I might ask? I studied Western although did some reading on Eastern but did not study it.

Mark Kincaid: I first studied Western for a number of years in my high school and early college years. A number of the configurations in my Western chart spoke to me and I deeply resonated with. These were my Leo, Virgo and Libra planets....

But, what I got the most was how small my Moon was and that related quite intimately to how I felt, shy, self-conscious, timid, etc. Later, when I was in college I first heard about meditation (1970) and because of this insight from my chart, I thought that might help.

So, I began meditating and immediately got enthralled with the development of consciousness.... which by the way is still today, one of the most powerful astrological remedies one can do!

I pursued higher and higher consciousness till I found myself in India in 1988 on an Ayurveda course where I first got royally introduced to the Eastern system of Astrology called Joytish...

As I then read about my 'eastern' chart, I saw why I related so automatically to my western chart. I did have Leo, Virgo and Libra planets and influences, though the exact reasons where more clear according to my eastern chart.

Typically, one's eastern chart, like the new western Sidereal system is 23 degrees apart from the traditional Western mathematics.

As I studied my eastern chart more and more I realized it much more exactly fit me than my western chart....

Then, I discovered the Transits from the eastern system and as I studied each days star and planetary movements I discovered that nature herself was literally, following the Vedic or eastern system or mathematics too!

Astronet Reunion Thank you so much for your response~You have given me quite a bit to think about for one day, and I'm going to share with others~Blessings on your afternoon~ Tricia

I will certainly get the opportunity to pay attention to my chart and get a real feel for this information.

Sidereal says Jupiter is at 4 and Uranus at 2 in the sign Pisces. I have a Pisces Stellium with Mercury at 3 deg, Venus at 18, Sun and Mars 26 deg Pisces. Western: I am either finished (nearly) with Jupiter and Uranus leaving Pisces, or, Eastern: still awaiting the trek as of Jan 16, 2011. I am open minded enough to consider this and will keep you posted~ Blessings to all!