OFFLINE

Gents here is a thread where you can discuss Marks Ki/Chi 'theories'

OFFLINE

I personally do not believe in the existence of chi/ki. At best those practices are mental exercises that provide ways of thinking that provide benefits that can be explained through other more likely mechanisms. After watching Segarra SBN's video on Ki, I can appreciate his approach.

The tests shown are the same BS as this: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIMxjr3n5U

These bands are bought in bulk for cents on the dollar from the chinese factories. The tester can alter the results of these tests through showmanship and minor changes in the vectors applied to the student. I don't need to do "Alpha One" to realize it has no mystical or ki properties. What I think would settle this is if a skeptical instructor would have 3 groups of 10 students. One group does Kicho Hyung, One group does Alpha One, one group runs around the room. Then our Ki expert, being blinded to the conditions can apply his tests. I'll bet $5 dollars on the outcomes. (I'm on school loans so I don't have more money than that to bet....)

OFFLINE

John -

Qi simply means energy. It is well known that the body has electrical pathways. Its for that reason you can't take a TENS unit and cross the heart or the spine since a TENS  is electrical. You also shock the heart to fix various issues. So I have no doubt that Qi exists. I have a great deal of doubt about many of the metaphysical theories of Qi. Most of the things that I've seen boil down to tricks. I'm sure if I thought  hard enough, I might think of something I can't explain but much of it is explainable. For example, Change Sen Feng was said to have actually developed a third set of teeth after what we normally do. Well - that can happen and there is a natural explanation. It was coincidence that he happened to do Taijiquan but man is always looking to rationalize. In the absence of science fact or strong theory, we make things up based on the totality of experiences and accumulated knowledge... hence the correlation to his Taijiquan practice.

Perhaps some of my brothers have experienced things I've not but at this point in my life, I've never seen anything metaphysical or preternatural that would lend itself to some mystical qi experience. In fact, all of the nei gung training (and I've been through three schools mind you) has all had tangible results not because of some mystical energy but because they were exercises that actually had a physiological benefit. I lean more towards the Wudang/Shandong Black Tiger qigong myself but that is because they help me. Wudang practices help me relax and become more fluid (I'm an ox - lol) and the Black Tiger material is hard and challenging... and is very much isometric in nature.

For this reason, I'd love nothing better than to apply scientific rigor to metaphysical study but even within my conversations, the resistance is clear and I've not heard anything yet that would lend itself to a study that one cannot discount virtually at face value. Any thoughts on that piece?

OFFLINE

Yes, we use electrochemical gradients physiologically butas most people use Qi they aren't talking about cell membrane potentials or neuron action potentials. The fields aren't large enough and aren't directly modifiable through thought... If you took basic physics and understand the micromolar concentrations that lead to this electrical potential you'd know it was patently silly to think about energy fields moving through the body, etc. Our cells have mechanisms to keep membrane potentials consistent... Thankfully, or we'd all end up with messed up EKGs and heart attacks. And when those potentials are altered they end up in the hospital.

It sounds like you understand what I'm saying and have a similar outlook. QI (to me doesn't exist, to you means something not metaphysical) might be a useful heuristic but has no probable underlying mechanism as some mystical energy field that we can extend into the world.

OFFLINE

OFFLINE

Mark can test his theory by having ten students in a room and test them using his procedure. Have one student do the Alpha form. Come back in and figure out who did it by the massive increase in strength he claims.

Do this five times it should rule out any lucky guesses. If for some reason he hits the lotto and gets 5/5 he can replicate the test a few more times if he gets 5/5 then he's onto something.

I doubt it. But there you go.

OFFLINE

John -

I think you and I are the same page. I do enjoy and study Taoist thought but there are some things that you just have to keep in the back of your mind that this was a rational explanation 2,000 or so years ago. I'd like to think we've moved forward a bit. That being said, we can't explain every phenomena today and I think that is actually a bit of the fun. It would really stink for us to know everything. But this new age stuff? Find me a crystal that has quantifiable power. Then we'll talk. (Dilithium crystals don't count - lol!!)