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skip to 8:30 and WATCH THIS SPEECH!



oorah.

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So in other words 'f*ck the Palestinians?'  He'll never find peace when he comes with a message of 'be Jew or be gone.'  Also note how he uses the settlements to justify his borders for Israel (the new demographics he was talking about).

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Originally Posted by Bryant Platt:
So in other words 'f*ck the Palestinians?'  He'll never find peace when he comes with a message of 'be Jew or be gone.'  Also note how he uses the settlements to justify his borders for Israel (the new demographics he was talking about).

dude, what a prism you're looking at this through. do i need to copy and paste some of the stuff i said in the other thread about this, because if not, i think i'll just wind up repeating myself. i want to use reason to get through to you because this is vitally important. i've used and presented facts in this multi-thread discussion, but you're still looking at it through the prism of israel being the problem. just let the palestinians have what they want, and everything will be just peachy. why in god's name does the left (and the worldview that it perpetuates) think that history is some thing that stopped taking place some time in the past? please, research the history, then tell me who has continued to be the aggressor, and who has been on the defensive. this is not some sporting match to these people. they play for keeps. they DO NOT share our jeffersonian principles of equality, and live and let live. they don't want israel there, and if you just listen to them, they will tell you - over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Dødherre Mørktre:


dude, what a prism you're looking at this through.

Not picking on ya Bryan, but here's sorta the way I see it.

The Palestinians might have a better chance of making peace with the Jews if they wouldnt elect Hamas to rule their govt.  Hamas is a terrorist organization who's charter states that their goal is the destruction of the Jews.  It would be like a bunch of KKK Clansmen being  elected to majority of Congress AND the Presidency and them wondering why African American groups are upset. Even when there has been a period of peace in Israel, intel shows that Hamas has smuggled in arms (RPG's etc) in that wind up being used to kill Jews.  The people throw rocks at Israeli soldiers almost daily.  Hamas has said it plans to form an alliance with Hezbollah (the organization funded by Iran who kidnapped Isralie soldiers and rained unholy hell down on Israel a few years ago).

Many ...maybe even most Palestinians actually celebrated the murder of a Jewish family by handing our cookies and treats to people!  There is solid proof that Palistinean schools teach that JEws are filthy animals that deserve to be murdered.

They have given Israel absolutely no reason to believe they will ever live peacefully alongside the Jews.  They do not even pretend they do not desire the mass Genocide of the Jews.  

So yeah...Eff the Palistinans.  And despite all this solid proof, the liberal left stands solidly against Israel.  Imo...the left is anti Jewish and would not care one bit if the Jews were murdered enmasse.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

They have given Israel absolutely no reason to believe they will ever live peacefully alongside the Jews.  They do not even pretend they do not desire the mass Genocide of the Jews.  

i think this is key


So yeah...Eff the Palistinans.  And despite all this solid proof, the liberal left stands solidly against Israel.  Imo...the left is anti Jewish and would not care one bit if the Jews were murdered enmasse.

well i think a great number of bleeding heart types would be devastated, and feel blindsided, even though all the warning sides were there all along. probably the same feeling many had following the holocaust.

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it is amazing to me though, just how much more of an anti-semetic attitude there is in europe, compared to america.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Young:

So yeah...Eff the Palistinans.  And despite all this solid proof, the liberal left stands solidly against Israel.  Imo...the left is anti Jewish and would not care one bit if the Jews were murdered enmasse.

So this is the answer to all the problems, eff the Palestinians and keep going the way things are going, let Israel build all the settlements that they want?  As for the bit about the left not caring "if the Jews were murdered enmasse", I was being called disingenuous in the other thread for my remark about Israel bombing gaza? A lot of the left have blinkers when it comes to all things palestine all right (it seems some lefty groups think a rally isn't a proper rally unless there's at least one palestinian flag, even if the rally is about the economy), but that's taking it a bit far....

This'll shock you maybe, but I'm as pro-israel as you guys, I don't think the way to peace is for them to give up more land without ever getting anything back in return. But I also don't think the way to peace is to keep ignoring the problem and acting as if the other side will just give up at some stage. Sure, it'll work for a while, but you'll always be looking over your shoulder, and the other side will always keep trying even if there's no hope of winning, because they can't do anything more than lash out.  It doesn't matter how many security walls and checkpoints you set up, or however many embargos you put in place, someone will always get through. To paraphrase what the IRA told the brits in the 80s: the israeli security forces have to get lucky every time, the suicide bomber/rocket launcher only has to get lucky once. So, better to attack the root cause than keep trying to treat the symptoms.

One big problem is that the palestinians are dirt-poor and uneducated, so they'll follow anyone who gives them someone to blame for their condition and who promises to make things better (like hitler did in the 30s). And Hamas are smart: back when Arafat's boys were feathering their nest with aid money they were setting up community organizations and helping the people.  So, come election time they were a dead cert to take over from Fatah.

So, does anyone have any actual ideas on how to get peace in the area, apart from "they shall make a desert, and call it peace"?

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Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:

So this is the answer to all the problems, eff the Palestinians and keep going the way things are going, let Israel build all the settlements that they want?

As long as the Palestinians keep teaching hate to their kids, keep killing and celebrating the murder of JEws and keep putting terrorist organizations in charge...then yeah.  As far as I'm concerned Eff em.  Eff em all.  Sorry, but thats how I feel.  When they begin to renounce their terrorist ways and show that they can be trusted to live peacefully alongside the Jews...then maybe there will be peace.  But not until then.

Originally Posted by Kieran Colfer:

One big problem is that the palestinians are dirt-poor and uneducated, so they'll follow anyone who gives them someone to blame for their condition and who promises to make things better (like hitler did in the 30s). And Hamas are smart: back when Arafat's boys were feathering their nest with aid money they were setting up community organizations and helping the people.  So, come election time they were a dead cert to take over from Fatah.

So, does anyone have any actual ideas on how to get peace in the area, apart from "they shall make a desert, and call it peace"?

That explains why they elected Hamas.  But it doesnt explain why a so called democratic society like Palestine shows little outrage when their schools teach the little kids to hate and kill Jews.  And it doesnt explain why they celebrated when a family of Jews were murdered in the dark of night in their home.  And it also doesnt explain why they celebrated in the streets when 9-11 happened in the USA.

I have no reason NOT to think that the Palestinians are the evil, murderous people they appear to be.  They have shown by their deeds and words that they want nothing more than the annihilation of the Jews.  And I personally think that if Israel gave up all their lands and kept only a 5 mile by 5 mile area for themselves somewhere, gave up all the holy sites, all their territories, etc...that the Palestinians would STILL want to murder them.

Sorry...its just what I think.

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miles, the israelis wouldn't be building any settlements on contested land IF the palestinians got serious about making the palestinian state. but the fact is, they don't want to give up ANY land to the israelis. opposing israel is the sole purpose of their existence, NOT building a true palestinian state.