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Do you think that consciousness generates information, or merely displays it?

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A nerd like myself would say, "It's not an either/or question."

On one hand, consciousness is an ongoing end product of streams of information.  On the other hand, it's the beginning of all other streams of information.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

A nerd like myself would say, "It's not an either/or question."

On one hand, consciousness is an ongoing end product of streams of information.  On the other hand, it's the beginning of all other streams of information.

Is information the same thing as an idea?

I agree that it's not an either/or thing. If we're intensely concentrating on an idea, and feeling frustrated that it's not coming to the fruition we'd like it to, and then all the sudden a resolving concept just appears in our thoughts, then where exactly did that concept come from? IMO, it came from something other than our consciousness. But the frustration may be a state of unsettled consciousness?

But, if, for a very simple example, I'm multiplying 2 x 2, and I'm counting or grouping my fingers until I conclude the answer of 4 and a half (my thumb got in the way and confused me), then maybe the answer is a direct or literal byproduct of the subroutines of consciousness?

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Is information the same thing as an idea?

Whew ... I hear a lot of debates on this kind of stuff daily, from some pretty smart folks who rarely agree on the answers.  Or at least, they may have similar answers but still not the same.

IMO, they're not the same.  

Information is one step beyond data.  Data is simply "an observation" whereas information is meaningful data.  It follows that an "idea" results from interpreting information ... it's an information-based projection or extrapolation.

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Originally Posted by Scott Terry:

Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

Is information the same thing as an idea?

Whew ... I hear a lot of debates on this kind of stuff daily, from some pretty smart folks who rarely agree on the answers.  Or at least, they may have similar answers but still not the same.

IMO, they're not the same.  

Information is one step beyond data.  Data is simply "an observation" whereas information is meaningful data.  It follows that an "idea" results from interpreting information ... it's an information-based projection or extrapolation.

VERY INTERESTING! This book I recently started reading (Why We Lie) influenced my asking this to begin with. The author makes references back to early hominids and the evolution of thought and consciousness, the widespread evolution of lies or deceptions demonstrated by almost every living organism, and the early influences of Freud and others who contributed to the foundations of modern psychology.

One of the last things I read that really interested me was his saying that a study or pathology concluded that depressives may suffer from a deficit in self-deception, suggesting that varying degrees of self-deception exists among perceived 'normal' people as - normal. But what becomes of an idea, feeling, or thought in the midst of self-deception, distortion? As common as self-deception (unconsciously) is, then how conscious can a person truly be with a mind full of distortions? Can a generally or normally distorted mind truly conclude meaningful data with distorted observations?

Ok, now I gotta go to work and actually try to focus on my job rather that this book. My mind feels - distorted now... But isn't that,,, normal?

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Originally Posted by Shawn Ishness:

But what becomes of an idea, feeling, or thought in the midst of self-deception, distortion? As common as self-deception (unconsciously) is, then how conscious can a person truly be with a mind full of distortions? Can a generally or normally distorted mind truly conclude meaningful data with distorted observations?

In layman's terms, chronic depression results from an ongoing chemical imbalance in the brain ... it can be controlled by medication.

OTOH, a disorder isn't a chemical imbalance and it's nothing like chronic depression.   A disorder emanates from a fundamental brain wiring problem and that's why it rarely can be effectively treated.

Over the years, I've mentioned that I was once married to a borderline.  At the onset, when the monster started to appear (after we got married), it was very confusing and disorienting to me.  Among other, more nasty things that surfaced, I began to think she was a chronic liar.  It sure seemed that way.

But it wasn't the case.

In normally-functioning minds, a stimulus or thought or information evokes an appropriately-associated feeling.  However, in a disordered mind, the opposite is often what happens.  Since their wires are crossed, something will trigger a feeling that's not the result of reality. But a disordered mind will give the feeling legitimacy because it's real to them.  

So their processes work in reverse from the normal way things happen.  The feeling is real to them and, in turn, they unconsciously conclude that something legitimately caused the feeling. So they "reinvent the truth" to fit their feelings.

That's a long-winded way of saying "No.  They can't.  By definition, it's an affect of a disordered mind."